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DiGGeR
06-02-2009, 11:23 AM
I was thinking on buying this to bend up a cage and make some tube fenders.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=97468
Thats all I'll probably ever do with it, Has anybody ever used this kind before? I like the price, and I know you get what you pay for, so I'm not expecting much! Beats the $5 grand for a good one!

limegreentj
06-02-2009, 11:37 AM
PIPE BENDER! i knew it before i clicked on it

limegreentj
06-02-2009, 11:43 AM
truth is, if you are gonna build little stingers and some stuff for rocker guards and whatnot.....that'll work for you, but tube and pipe are 2 completely different things. pipe is measured I.D. and usually has a thicker wall. tube is measured O.D. and is usually around .120 wall. never build a cage out of pipe....but to be perfectly honest there is a local store to me that has one of these cheap that im probably gonna grab just to build small stuff....like tube fenders and pieces for my rocker guards.....PLEASE PLEASE PLEASE DONT EVER USE PIPE FOR A CAGE!!! mainly if its an onroad vehicle....you'd probably be okay in a slow rollover offroad, but i wouldnt chance it.


BTW you cant really bend tube in that pipe bender because, like i said above, they are sized totally different and you'll kink the "tube". but if you are going to build stuff with pipe, i know that filling it with sand and capping the ends off works to prevent the piece from kinking

limegreentj
06-02-2009, 11:45 AM
also, you would be able to add on to your stock "roll bar" with pipe....making spreader bars and welding them in and such. that will definitely help in a roll over....but i'd never ever trust a full cage made entirely out of pipe

DiGGeR
06-02-2009, 12:08 PM
You guys are always a wealth of information, thanks you! I never completely understood the difference until now. I was under the impression that DOM was perfectly round and had no imperfections. I 'was' and 'am' going to use DOM tubing for a cage, I just assumed (<--made an ass out of me) that a pipe bender would bend tube.

limegreentj
06-02-2009, 12:12 PM
lol its all good man, ya gotta learn sometime....i have heard, however, of guys bending dom tube the same was i said to bend pipe (cap both ends and fill it with sand) and also you need to make sure the tube you are using fits nice and snug in the dies and doesnt wiggle around or sit on "top" of the die

DiGGeR
06-02-2009, 01:56 PM
After a quick google search I see many people made the same mistake I was about to!

MF Steve!
06-02-2009, 03:15 PM
I was thinking on buying this to bend up a cage and make some tube fenders.
http://www.harborfreight.com/cpi/ctaf/displayitem.taf?Itemnumber=97468
Thats all I'll probably ever do with it, Has anybody ever used this kind before? I like the price, and I know you get what you pay for, so I'm not expecting much! Beats the $5 grand for a good one!

$5k? WTF are you lookin at? A manual JD2 or ProTools bender can be had cheap and with a die of good size, 1.75" you're looking at less than $1000.

limegreentj
06-02-2009, 03:45 PM
how many different sizes of tube can you bend with one set of dies (1.75")?

justin'sbig7
06-02-2009, 03:55 PM
i just bought a jd2, it works great. i have the 1.75 die, you have to buy a die for each different pipe size, theres no universal die. for the bender, dies (1 set), base and shipping it was $823

limegreentj
06-02-2009, 03:58 PM
yeah thats what im sayin.....you can only bend one size tube per each set of dies....those dies get expensive, if you want to do cage work and stuff you'd probably want bigger than 1.75 (i would anyway) but the 1.75 would be good for doing everytthing else, like tube fenders and stuff, 800+ dollars isnt worth it to me at all...unless i did shit for other people and it helped me pay for it, and i doubt i'd even do enough to justify it

justin'sbig7
06-02-2009, 04:56 PM
many cages are built out of 1.5" for comp rigs. 1.75" .120 wall is plenty for a cage. the dies are around $300 each for the bigger sizes, but a lot cheaper for smaller stuff. it really isnt worth it for the shadetree guy, but if you build enough, it pays for itself. i think i am gonna get the 1.5" dies soon

limegreentj
06-02-2009, 05:20 PM
so then you agree with what im saying about building everything else except cages that a pipe bender would suffice?

trailerrails
06-02-2009, 06:02 PM
so then you agree with what im saying about building everything else except cages that a pipe bender would suffice?

I have one of those pipe benders (aka: The kink o' matic 5000) and even if you bend pipe it still kinks it. They suck. If you are very careful you might get a kink free bend out of it, but I doubt it. If you want to try before you buy, let me know.

limegreentj
06-02-2009, 06:04 PM
yeah that might be cool...have you ever tried the ole sand/cap method?

justin'sbig7
06-02-2009, 06:47 PM
so then you agree with what im saying about building everything else except cages that a pipe bender would suffice?

if its not going to be structural, it would suffice. i have seen the cheepies flatten out a bend, and add kinks. you dont get a nice fluid bend even with the sand trick. so, the asthetics are not there, but it would work if you wanted some bent pipe on the side of your rig.

justin'sbig7
06-02-2009, 06:48 PM
also, DOM is $4.15 a foot, its expensive to have a hit and miss bender... and youd have to thread the pipe to cap it wich is a very expensive tool in itself and a lot of work.

limegreentj
06-02-2009, 08:10 PM
why couldnt you just weld a plate to the end of it and then cut it off when you are finished? just something to hold the sand in

DiGGeR
06-02-2009, 08:13 PM
After my google search I found a site that tells you how to redesign it to bend tube, looks like a lot of work. I rather purchase a JD2!

justin'sbig7
06-02-2009, 09:07 PM
why couldnt you just weld a plate to the end of it and then cut it off when you are finished? just something to hold the sand in


that would work. your just still not gonna get a perfect bend.



After my google search I found a site that tells you how to redesign it to bend tube, looks like a lot of work. I rather purchase a JD2!


its a good machine. youll like it, and, if you dont spring for the hydraulic kit, it will give you big muscles!

trailerrails
06-03-2009, 08:50 AM
yeah that might be cool...have you ever tried the ole sand/cap method?

No, it thought it was too much trouble. I was just bending some tube fenders and seat brackets, I was not too worried about a couple little dents. Also if you bend a little then move it 1/2", then bend a little then move it 1/2", etc.. you will get decent results. Not good, just decent.

jackb1
06-03-2009, 08:52 AM
I've used a harbor freight bender. Even for non-structural crap, it works just like that, crap. I even tried packing with sand and wet-sand. It still kinks and looks like sh*t. I would never use one of those for anything ever again.

This isn't very close-up but it was all I had. The spreader bars on the top were bent with the HF bender -with packed sand and greased rollers. It can't be more than a 10 degree bend and I stopped there because the kink was getting too bad for me.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q294/jeepgod01/Vehicles/DSC00337.jpg

If you just want to bend a few pieces, you're welcome to come use my bender. PM if you do.

twiztidunit
06-03-2009, 11:08 AM
There was a big to-do over this topic of tubing-pipe on another forum.Dont use what we call in the HVAC field "black iron pipe"or by some out of the field call"poop pipe"(black steel sch40)used for natural gas,compressed air,propane,etc.It cracks fairly easy on impact,Its seamed and can split there too.Use at least 120 wall dom.I have one of those harbor freight jobs,and if the pipe dont fit the die right it will kink the wee out of it.I built my cage with it,packed the thing w/ sand and I managed to get it to work.Honestly,if I had it to do again,Id bought a different one,and what he said about the differences of pipe and tube,he is right.Its your lfe(and possibly others)use the right materal when it comes to a cage.Just because someone else did it and they say it never broke or got hurt doesnt mean it is the right thing to do.

twiztidunit
06-03-2009, 11:16 AM
about plugging the pipe for sand,take a 2x4,drill it with a holesaw the size you need,then I took a belt sander,beveling them,fill hole with nut and bolt.pound it in one end,fill with sand,tap it on the floor to get the sand to settle.keep doin this till you get it full.take the other plug and pound it in.I then taped the wee out of them to keep them on.It is imperitive to keep that sand compacted as tite as possible!!It works,Ive built 2 cages this way with real good results.It just a pain,Id rather have a regular bender

trailerrails
06-03-2009, 04:30 PM
about plugging the pipe for sand,take a 2x4,drill it with a holesaw the size you need,then I took a belt sander,beveling them,fill hole with nut and bolt.pound it in one end,fill with sand,tap it on the floor to get the sand to settle.keep doin this till you get it full.take the other plug and pound it in.I then taped the wee out of them to keep them on.It is imperitive to keep that sand compacted as tite as possible!!It works,Ive built 2 cages this way with real good results.It just a pain,Id rather have a regular bender

I am confused, are you using the circle piece of wood that you cut out of the 2x4 as a plug? Are you saying that you built 2 cages out of gas pipe? Do you have any pics of these rigs upside down?

limegreentj
06-03-2009, 04:53 PM
i am also slightly confused.........

DiGGeR
06-03-2009, 05:02 PM
I am confused, are you using the circle piece of wood that you cut out of the 2x4 as a plug? Are you saying that you built 2 cages out of gas pipe? Do you have any pics of these rigs upside down?

I think he used it as a plug (like a big 'cork in a bottle'). And It sounds like he made cages out of DOM using this method.
I myself would rather just spend the extra few hundred and buy the JD2, Probably would save money in the long run, after all the mistakes (I know I would). JD2 on Ebay is $250ish(new) then dies are aound $300ish(new)

limegreentj
06-03-2009, 05:04 PM
thats ****in insane...those dies arent worth anywhere near what they want for them.....ridiculousness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

Krod
06-03-2009, 05:28 PM
thats ****in insane...those dies arent worth anywhere near what they want for them.....ridiculousness!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!1

So go down to your favorite machinist and have him make you one. Then come back and tell me what you paid, and more importantly, how well it worked.

trailerrails
06-03-2009, 05:30 PM
Unless you plan on going in business making shit, just get someone to bend the tube for you. For a one time project it is not worth buying. There are enough people out there with real tube benders. I had someone else bend all the tube for me. I bent the tube that holds my seats and my tube fenders with the kink o' matic.
On the other hand, I am sure if I owned a real bender I could be making parts for people and had made my money back by now.

limegreentj
06-03-2009, 05:53 PM
So go down to your favorite machinist and have him make you one. Then come back and tell me what you paid, and more importantly, how well it worked.



i can have them made for next to nothing from friends i used to work with, and they'd work just fine...really there is nothing to them...they dont take long to make and they arent super complex

mxg342
06-03-2009, 07:25 PM
Well with the material, finish and everything else that goes into making a set of dies, I don't think $300 is that bad.

justin'sbig7
06-03-2009, 08:15 PM
i can have them made for next to nothing from friends i used to work with, and they'd work just fine...really there is nothing to them...they dont take long to make and they arent super complex


the bender, no, they are simple. the dies yes they are complicated to have made and i am sure to have a machinist make dies it would be more than $300. i think the dies were the object in question.

justin'sbig7
06-03-2009, 08:22 PM
I think he used it as a plug (like a big 'cork in a bottle'). And It sounds like he made cages out of DOM using this method.
I myself would rather just spend the extra few hundred and buy the JD2, Probably would save money in the long run, after all the mistakes (I know I would). JD2 on Ebay is $250ish(new) then dies are aound $300ish(new)

digger, i can give ya some tips on how to pattern your bender when you get it if you want. it works better than the method jd2 will give you (theres is: bend a 90 and just trial and error for other angles) i use simple trig and its really pretty simple with minimal waste as DOM is expensive to screw up.

limegreentj
06-03-2009, 08:31 PM
i guess i just think they are expensive because i've worked in machine shops and know guys that do that kinda shit and the worst part is the setup (read a blueprint, type some shit into a computer) then push a few buttons sit back and let the machine go to work

Krod
06-03-2009, 08:46 PM
the worst part is the setup (read a blueprint, type some shit into a computer) then push a few buttons sit back and let the machine go to work


Sure is, but its only that simple if you already have the blueprint, tooling, and appropriate material. If you've got that laying around, I'll order one. Let me know what the price is.

justin'sbig7
06-03-2009, 08:57 PM
i guess i just think they are expensive because i've worked in machine shops and know guys that do that kinda shit and the worst part is the setup (read a blueprint, type some shit into a computer) then push a few buttons sit back and let the machine go to work


i wish i had that stuff :085::010:

mxg342
06-03-2009, 09:09 PM
A CNC mill may be able to do them with the correct tooling but I would say you'd need at least a cnc lathe and a mill.

The material is big too. I'm sure it's a 4100 series or 4300 series heat treated steel or maybe even tool steel to make it harder than the hinges of hell. Needless to say, it'd be a shitpile of work to make one from scratch.

mxg342
06-03-2009, 09:10 PM
i wish i had that stuff :085::010:


Give me a couple of years (or maybe decades) and we'll be set up with manual machines anyway.

justin'sbig7
06-03-2009, 09:55 PM
sweet! i am getting another new garage toy in a week or so... i have been trying to find a brake and shear that wil handle 3/16.... not finding much that will fit in my garage for now.

mxg342
06-03-2009, 10:20 PM
sweet! i am getting another new garage toy in a week or so... i have been trying to find a brake and shear that wil handle 3/16.... not finding much that will fit in my garage for now.

haha I'm going to the bank tomorrow to apply to buy my garage..... and house and property.

twiztidunit
06-08-2009, 03:18 PM
I am confused, are you using the circle piece of wood that you cut out of the 2x4 as a plug? Are you saying that you built 2 cages out of gas pipe? Do you have any pics of these rigs upside down?no no no...I used 125 wall dom,and yes,I used the plugs out of the center of holesaw.I wouldnt use sch40 pipe for a cage

CESCO
06-08-2009, 04:38 PM
use a torch and make a jig to bend your radius if you think that paying someone or buying a bender is to much money..

jim91303
06-08-2009, 10:21 PM
use a torch and make a jig to bend your radius if you think that paying someone or buying a bender is to much money..


OH GOD .... please don't ! i know your jokin ... but for those who dont know ..... do not do that. it will weakin the tube. for small things yeah it will work but not for the main hoops of the cage.

limegreentj
06-08-2009, 10:43 PM
maybe he wasnt joking and he was trying to be a dick and in the process just made an ass out of himself......like 90% of this forum does on a daily basis

CESCO
06-09-2009, 08:26 AM
it would be cheaper than buying a bender or paying someone to bend it for you. just spray it with cold water right after you get the angle you want
:flipoff2:

dan58
06-09-2009, 08:50 AM
many cages are built out of 1.5" for comp rigs. 1.75" .120 wall is plenty for a cage. the dies are around $300 each for the bigger sizes, but a lot cheaper for smaller stuff. it really isnt worth it for the shadetree guy, but if you build enough, it pays for itself. i think i am gonna get the 1.5" dies soon

The vast majority of cages are made of 1.75, .120 wall DOM. If you want lighter weight, you can go with 1.50, .120 wall chromo. You pay for the lighter weight (obviously).