Heres my plan.. You with me so far?

[Mykal]

My d30 and c8.25 finally went to shit.
Im having a hard time sourcing a decent D60 for a good price. I want to wheel not watch others wheel. So heres what Im planning on doing. Id like your thoughts.

Throw a J20 HD 44 8 lug under the front on the stock setup with short arms.
Throw the 14b ff srw 8 lug in the back under the stock setup with my bastard pack. Dakota Leafs under an XJ main.

Do you think the 14b will be to heavy for those leafs?
I dont want to talk about tire size because I already know my tires will make the 14b an anchor. Ill deal with it.

Any other concerns?

[tjblair]

I would definitly concider shaving the 14 bolt if you plan on runnin any thing smaller than 37's.

[XJchris98]

Do you think the 14b will be to heavy for those leafs?



Yes. It would probably be alright just going down the road, but with that much weight hanging off those springs I think you'll find axle wrap being an issue. XJ's can get axle wrap even on 33"s and stock gears (ask Jason) and thats with slightly worn out lift springs. While im not a big fan of them, I would plan on some kind of traction bar (anti-wrap bar) for the rear end.

[Mykal]

Yes. It would probably be alright just going down the road, but with that much weight hanging off those springs I think you'll find axle wrap being an issue.

Any suggestion for leafs? Id like to maintain the 3.5" of lift in the rear that I have as well.

[cityslicker]

if you had either of those og axles locked I would buy it...

[Mykal]

if you had either of those og axles locked I would buy it...

Whats that have to do with this thread? They arent for sale.

[justin'sbig7]

My d30 and c8.25 finally went to shit.
Im having a hard time sourcing a decent D60 for a good price. I want to wheel not watch others wheel. So heres what Im planning on doing. Id like your thoughts.

Throw a J20 HD 44 8 lug under the front on the stock setup with short arms.
Throw the 14b ff srw 8 lug in the back under the stock setup with my bastard pack. Dakota Leafs under an XJ main.

Do you think the 14b will be to heavy for those leafs?
I dont want to talk about tire size because I already know my tires will make the 14b an anchor. Ill deal with it.

Any other concerns?

the leaf springs are supporting the weight of the vehicle, not the weight of the axles, therefore it wont really matter how heavy the axles are.

i would also find a HP d44 from a 77-79 f150, they can be had cheap and are high pinion... not to mention the j truck will have the wrong pinion drop (pass as opposed to driver) sounds like a decent plan otherwise

[Mykal]

the leaf springs are supporting the weight of the vehicle, not the weight of the axles, therefore it wont really matter how heavy the axles are.

i would also find a HP d44 from a 77-79 f150, they can be had cheap and are high pinion... not to mention the j truck will have the wrong pinion drop (pass as opposed to driver) sounds like a decent plan otherwise

That makes sense about the weight.

Its a drivers side drop. They went Driver in the '80s I believe.

[ridgerunner97]

Mykal, I like the idea, that J-truck 44 will be strong, obviously not 60 strong but will allow you to wheel while scrounging a 60. Axle Wrap isn't going to be an issue, just like Justin said, the springs are supporting the weight of the Jeep, not the axle, idk why you'd get axle wrap from a heavier axle, ive heard the argument before and don't get it. Your springs should be fine.

[Mykal]

Ill try em. Whats the worst that can happen right... I need to stretch the rear at some point and link it so if it breaks the springs itll be motivation.

Ill be picking the axle up either tommorow night or Monday. I just want to wheel.

[ridgerunner97]

Muuhaahaha :112: LOL

[cjw94xk]

Mykal, I like the idea, that J-truck 44 will be strong, obviously not 60 strong but will allow you to wheel while scrounging a 60. Axle Wrap isn't going to be an issue, just like Justin said, the springs are supporting the weight of the Jeep, not the axle, idk why you'd get axle wrap from a heavier axle, ive heard the argument before and don't get it. Your springs should be fine.


The axle isn't supporting the weight? Actually, it is. I agree with Chris.

[ridgerunner97]

Okay, that came across very wrong haha, I mistyped that. The axle does support the weight of the vehicle, but the springs are not supporting the weight of the axle, understand, they are supporting the weight of the body. Heavier axle won't create axle wrap...

[XJchris98]

The axle does support the weight of the vehicle, but the springs are not supporting the weight of the axle, understand, they are supporting the weight of the body. Heavier axle won't create axle wrap...

A stripped 14 bolt (i.e WITHOUT the drums weigh in at 450lbs....550lbs with ). The 8.8 is only 174lbs for comparison. Hang that below a set of stock or nearly stock XJ springs and you'll find that the springs wont last very long. The main leaf on an XJ is extremely thin.

A common reason for axle wrap is....ding-ding-ding...worn out springs!

Im not saying the 14bolt swap cant be done on a stock(ish) setup, but I would definitely be looking to upgrade the springs before I went and beat on it. Why risk it?

[2002wranglerX]

this should be interesting.

[Super Scout]

That inline 6 dont have enough balls to cause axle wrap...lol just kidding I dont think it will be an issue, heavier axle shouldnt cause that.

[xj jimmy]

Maybe in right field here but wouldnt the axle wrap occur because of the tires loading (traction) and unloading (no traction) when you are on a climb/ledge and spinning?

now with a 8.25 something is gonna break before you notice it as much because of the weakness of shafts, pinion, and so on.
with the 14 that weakness is gone so now instead of the axle hopping once and breaking, it will hop more and more resulting in the higher bounce and more torque put on springs when weight comes down from bounce causing traction.

imo its gonna wrap and probably break driveshaft u joint, because that will be weak link.

the weight of the axle and wheel tire setup would be more concern of ripping the spring perches off the unibody, over time ofcourse.

[Super Scout]

Mykals jeep has Lift springs on it so they are not worn out, unless im missing something. Lift springs are typically alot stiffer.

[xj jimmy]

support the shackle mounts some, shave it (thats what she said), and wheel it. worst case something breaks and you go from there.

its a vicious cycle we all know and love :smoke:

[ridgerunner97]

Maybe in right field here but wouldnt the axle wrap occur because of the tires loading (traction) and unloading (no traction) when you are on a climb/ledge and spinning?

now with a 8.25 something is gonna break before you notice it as much because of the weakness of shafts, pinion, and so on.
with the 14 that weakness is gone so now instead of the axle hopping once and breaking, it will hop more and more resulting in the higher bounce and more torque put on springs when weight comes down from bounce causing traction.

imo its gonna wrap and probably break driveshaft u joint, because that will be weak link.

the weight of the axle and wheel tire setup would be more concern of ripping the spring perches off the unibody, over time ofcourse.

Jimmy your last sentence is exactly what I just said to SuperScout, That is the only place I see the weight causing a problem. Axle wrap is caused by traction, not weight of the axle, am I missing sumthing here, am I not right about that? Traction, coupled with weak springs which his aren't really to weak probably, idk maybe i'm just crazy...

[Super Scout]

Fix, break, repeat been there before !!!

[justin'sbig7]

unsprung weight is what the springs carry. the axle can weigh 15,000 lbs and the springs are only going to see the weight of the vehicle. when the axle droops the springs will see the weight of the axle, but the axle doesnt weigh as much as the xj.

the only good way to fix springwrap is to build a torque arm. you can add all the leaves and heavy springs you want, the force will wrap and cause it to hop.

gotcha on the later model j20, had a brain fart. as someone running a LPD44, i would sell the j axle and get a HP ford. if you go much higher the driveshaft vibes suck and the shaft hits EVERYTHING.

heres a shot of my DS, you can see how much lower it is than my springs

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f214/justinsbig7/2007_0301Image0060.jpg

[ridgerunner97]

haha okay, i'm not insane thanks Justin LOL, Mykal I may have a lead on a ford axle like there talkin about, i'll call on it tomorrow see what my buddy has to say, he was the guy with me in august with the Ford pullin truck

[jeepxj3]

Mykal, Honestly I think you would be fine with the bastard pack, whats the worse that happens, you change them out later... Keep in mind this is "unsprung vehicle weight". I think your biggest problem with an axle that large would be axle wrap, especially if you have deeper gears in it. You can easily remedy this if you add a traction bar.

The next thing you have to look into is the size of a 14bff, they are rather large, even for 35's, guys with 37's and shaved 14bff, tend to still complain about them dragging. Theres alot of other options out there, what its going to come down to is time money, and what YOU want to do.

[Mykal]

Mykal, Honestly I think you would be fine with the bastard pack, whats the worse that happens, you change them out later... Keep in mind this is "unsprung vehicle weight". I think your biggest problem with an axle that large would be axle wrap, especially if you have deeper gears in it. You can easily remedy this if you add a traction bar.

The next thing you have to look into is the size of a 14bff, they are rather large, even for 35's, guys with 37's and shaved 14bff, tend to still complain about them dragging. Theres alot of other options out there, what its going to come down to is time money, and what YOU want to do.


I figured the springs could hold them but I was pretty worried it would rip the leaf mounts from the body. But like I said, I just want to wheel. I have the 14b already and the 44 isnt a permanent fix. Just something for this summer or until I can grab a D60 for a steal.

Ive heard all about the 14b being an anchor. If I drag it all over the place then Ill step up tire size alot faster and do the shave. We have rocks here but Im not exactly in a race or competition so Im not real worried about sidestepping stuff for awhile. I just want to wheel.

[Mykal]

/thread. Hedder just bought me a d60 ford hi pinion kingpin. Best girlfriend ever. Haha

[justin'sbig7]

/thread. Hedder just bought me a d60 ford hi pinion kingpin. Best girlfriend ever. Haha


holy shit!!!!! :icon_pray:

[Mykal]

Scratch that... inventory was wrong. They had one but not with 4:10's so I passed. Help me find one for under $900.

[tjblair]

http://www.pgh-offroad.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12759

[Mykal]

I seen those but its kinda a hike for me to see if they are 4:10's and verify the year. After gas and they would be at what a local yard will charge me for one in good condition with 4:10's when they do get one.

[justin'sbig7]

gears arent that bad to do, and you can find used 4.10's on pirate fairly cheap. i wouldnt pass it up over gear ratio if its reasonably priced

[Mykal]

Ive never done gears at all and Im sure I dont have the tools. Ive heard the 14 bolt is easy because it has shims or something to that effect. Is the 60 the same?

$900 is what the local yard wanted for one with 3:54's

[tjblair]

I have 4:10 gears for a d60

[ridgerunner97]

Mykal, bring it up the house here, my ole man is doin steve's scout, i'm sure he could show you how to do em in that 60

[Mykal]

I have 4:10 gears for a d60

How much you want for them?


Mykal, bring it up the house here, my ole man is doin steve's scout, i'm sure he could show you how to do em in that 60

Seriously? Find out if he will show me how to do it. Ill take you up on that.

Ill go get that bitch tomorrow.

[ridgerunner97]

I'll talk to him, he is busy with bullshit all the time, but if you can bring it up the same day we do the scout we can have a gear party LOL, bring a case and make Steve get pizza LOL

[tjblair]

I believe a 14b uses spanners to set the backlash where a d60 uses shims.


I would have to check to make sure that they are all goood they are still in the axel. I dont know what used gears go for $60 maybe

[tjblair]

you are talking front right
reverse cut

[Mykal]

I'll talk to him, he is busy with bullshit all the time, but if you can bring it up the same day we do the scout we can have a gear party LOL, bring a case and make Steve get pizza LOL

When is that? Ill buy the pizza, I quit drinking.


I believe a 14b uses spanners to set the backlash where a d60 uses shims.

I would have to check to make sure that they are all goood they are still in the axel. I dont know what used gears go for $60 maybe

Id be ok with that.

[ridgerunner97]

I believe a 14b uses spanners to set the backlash where a d60 uses shims.


I would have to check to make sure that they are all goood they are still in the axel. I dont know what used gears go for $60 maybe

I'm pretty damn sure your right on that Jeff, my buddy put a 14 bolt in his Ford pullin truck and I remember him saying something to that effect...

[tjblair]

http://www.rockymountainextreme.com/showthread.php?t=48063 yup here is an exploded view of a 14b

[ridgerunner97]

When is that? Ill buy the pizza, I quit drinking.



Hopefully Feb. here, Steve gotta get his parts and my dad gotta make an opening, he is bringin the whole scout down so we're gonna have to clean up the one car garage of junk so we got sum clean area to work on yours, his is stayin in the rig. I'll PM details as soon as I find out, gotta coordinate between Steve and the ole man

[tjblair]

Id be ok with that. you are talking for the front right? will you be around Butler any time soon?

[Mykal]

Yes it the front. Probably not to be honest. I may not need them though now that I think about it. The yard offered me a 4:10 ring and pinion. Hopefully they will still give that to me with the axle. Ill let ya know if I need them after tommorow.

[tjblair]

Ok

[justin'sbig7]

make sure it is a reverse cut gearset, there is a difference.

[tjblair]

make sure it is a reverse cut gearset, there is a difference.
yah BIG difference
:045:

[ridgerunner97]

I'm glad somebody remembered that, that could be ugly :021:

[Mykal]

Thanks, I remember that from the D60 bible which I think Ive went through about 200 times now. lol That thing has some good info.

I found a few writeups on setting up the gears and it doesnt look that hard other then having the correct tools, its just time consuming from the looks of it.

[tjblair]

The only tools you really need are a bearing splitter, a dial indicator, in lb touque wrench and a press. You could get away with out the press if you really had to. a seal/bearing race driver set is nice to have too, but again you can do it without it.

[Mykal]

Thats pretty much what the writeups said as well. Thanks for all the help and info. Its appreciated.

[ridgerunner97]

We got everything except the press, and the press is in the neighbor's garage across the lane :) Gotta love havin a dad that was a Chrysler Master Tech for 20 odd years, and your neighbor across the lane did the same thing but longer. And the neighbor one house down is the manager of the carquest hehehe.

[village_idiot]

We got everything except the press, and the press is in the neighbor's garage across the lane :) Gotta love havin a dad that was a Chrysler Master Tech for 20 odd years, and your neighbor across the lane did the same thing but longer. And the neighbor one house down is the manager of the carquest hehehe.
lucky bastid!

[Super Scout]

My neighbors are a retired social worker and Insurance sales man WTF!!!! My dad owns a hardware store so I guess thats a win lol I get paid again on the 7th lol so Ill order the rest of the parts than, or a little sooner. Hate spreading myself thin incase something comes up....

[Jeepin'Jones]

It helps having a extra old set of bearings that you can grind out to slip on and off when setting it up, so you only have to run to the press one time with the new bearings when you know how much shimming you need.