Anyone running a Klune-v?

[tjblair]

I have been looking at doing a 4:1. This shounds like a much better option. It would be nice not to loose the factory low range, and gives you many gear options. Coupled with the 231 low range it would give me a 4:1 and 11:1:047: for around the same price if not less than the tera low 4:1 kit. I was just wondering if anyone had first hand expierence with this set up.
http://www.klunev.com/apps_manual_new_page_2a.htm

[moparfan1]

Sounds sweet! What's the prices like?

[tjblair]

I haven't been able to get an exact price, I'll have to call them on Monday but I think that it is 1000 to $1500. the Tera low is like 1400 if I remember right. And like I said before with the teralow you loose the 2.73 lowrange. This would keep the 231's lowrange, pluss ad a 4:1 and 11:1.

[limegreentj]

do it man!

[tjblair]

And would allow me to keep my 2wd low.

[Krod]

Have you looked into doubling with the range box from another 231? Same result, less $$$$. Either way you need to build a new crossmember to support the cases.

The cost of the Klune-V's is something I never understood, when they use factory New Process parts internally. All the talk about extra strength thrown around from Klune, when the rear case is what will see all the extra torque from the doubler! LOL

Mad Rooster and Duffy's both make the 231 doubler kits if you do decide to go that way. Personally, I'd be looking into the 231-D300 doubler option, since you have the 231 already. Twin sticks are nice! ;)

[tjblair]

Well I havent looked into deul 231's. I have a range box out of a 203 but my head hurts from trying to figure out how to couple it to the front of the 231. the other issue that I am running into with the 203 is that I am running an ax5 which has a 21 spline output shaft. I haven't been able to find a way to do it, so either it can't be done or I just don't know where to look. the way I understand it if I can find a way to couple the 203 to the 231 it is only going to give me a 4:1 which wouldnt be too bad if I could do it for 4 or 500 hundred. The klune is the first thing that I have foung that will except the 21 spline ax5 and will only ad 6in to the driveline length. I am open to all options I am still looking around. front dig would be nice though too,I believe that you can acomplish this with the 231-300. do you know the added driveline length of this set up?

[ridgerunner97]

I don't know the length spec Jeff, but it should be just a few inches longer than the 231 if not really close to overall same length. I've been planning how to do the 231/300 in my XJ, only other thing to keep it drivers drop would be a flip kit and cable shifters for the 300... that adds a bit to the price but I like the 231/300 doubler better than a klune or an atlas LOL. Front digs will be sick as hell. I was gonna suggest a 231/300 doubler, but was unsure of the driveline angles you'll have to get an overall spec on it and see though, definately a viable and competitively priced option.

BTW, Northwest Fab makes a sick cable shifter setup for the 300, with an option for it being flipped http://www.northwestfab.com/Shifters.html

And here is the flip ring you'd need

http://www.novak-adapt.com/catalog/kit_153.htm

I'm sure there are other vendors but that is who i'd go through if I was buying parts to do it. Save the headache LOL

[justin'sbig7]

i would be concerned with the length of the driveline unless you stretch the rear..... theres a write up on hrja about the 231/300, its very interesting

[limegreentj]

i dunno if it would be the same length as an xj though jon, he has a 4 cyl and a standard, i think the length difference between that and a 6 cyl auto would be pretty different

[tjblair]

I do plan on stretching the rear, just not quite yet.lol

[ridgerunner97]

I edited the post, a 300 is also 8in shorter than a stock 231, and 4in shorter than a 231 with an SYE. I'm not sure of the thickness of the range box on a 231, but you may only be gettin an inch or two longer if at all. There are guys runnin 231/300's in TJ's on stock wheelbase as far as i'm aware, I saw a thread on Pirate I think...

[tjblair]

i dunno if it would be the same length as an xj though jon, he has a 4 cyl and a standard, i think the length difference between that and a 6 cyl auto would be pretty different
actueally I believe that they are pertty close the. I'm not positive but I believe that you can use the same driveshaft from a 6cyl auto wrangler as you can on a 4cyl manual wrangler. again not sure but I thought I gave an old stock driveshaft I had to 96greenxjjeep and I thought he said it worked on his tj.

[limegreentj]

hmm...learn somethin new every day

[tjblair]

http://www.pirate4x4.com/articles/productreviews/mad_rooster
good read, Im not quite sure I understand how it works( no pictures )

[ridgerunner97]

IDK if D.D. Machine or Mad Rooster is still making kits, you'd have to dig on Pirate and find out. That was the only snag I am running into so far with my 231/300 doubler besides the fact I don't have the money to start it haha, Is where to get the mainshaft. I bet Northwest Fab or some local machine shop may do it to it for ya, hard to say though, I haven't looked into it as much as I should have cuz I don't have the money right now.

[tjblair]

So I know that with a 231-300 you can do a front dig, but can you get 2wd low or rear dig, sorry if it is a stupid question I just dont know that set up that well. And what are the d300 going for now with the twin stick.

[ridgerunner97]

Dana 300 out of a Jeep goes for anywhere from 75-400 bucks depending, ive seen em in this range, it all depends. Scout 300 won't work and good luck finding one, they only offered em in 2 or 3yrs of scouts, 80-81 or whatever last year scout was. And as far as I remember you CAN have 2wd Low and disengage the front axle when the 300 is twin sticked. I couldn't fathom a price on a twin sticked 300, probably same window as I mentioned above hard to say, haven't come across to many for sale already twin sticked (locally at least). Got your PM by the way Jeff.

[justin'sbig7]

twin sticking a d300 is pretty easy, and you get the same choices as an atlas. basically one stick controls the front output (hi low neutral) and one stick controls the rear output (hi low neutral) so if you wanted front drive, youd put the rear in neutral and then pick front hi or low.

[Krod]

The 231-D300 combo would probably be best unless you want to move your entire driveline forward (which has been done with other 4 banger Wranglers). then your options are limitless...but it takes some maneuvering.

The 231-D300 should be about the same length as a 231 with a SYE, you do NOT need to buy a flip kit to flip one, just double seal the shifters. I would think that the D&D doubler + a decent D300 and a little time should net you the best setup (2wd F/R Low, Digs, etc...) The cable shifters can be made from McMaster Carr parts for less than the northwest fab, or any other pre-fab setup. All of that should be WELL under the cost of the Klune, and not to mention more versitile and stronger!

[red6rubicon]

NWF shifters suck I bought them for my buggy when they first came out I have replaced the cables about 4 times each side!
I have a 231/300 on my garage floor right now if you need any pics or measurements let me know

[tjblair]

I like the sound of the 231/300.( I kind of remember Cheenin telling me about this set up last summer) What would the final reduction be in low low? Is it just a 4:1 or is it lower? Seems to me that it would be 4:1. I don't know how to do the math (do you just ad them) but the 231 is 2.72:1 and the dana300 is 2.62:1. am I coming to the right conclusions here?

[justin'sbig7]

jeff, they multiply, so you would end up with a final reduction of 7.12:1 low range. :040: bad ass!

KROD, is there a write up on the mcmaster carr cable shift somewhere? id like to get rid of my shifter and move it closer.

[dan58]

I like the sound of the 231/300.( I kind of remember Cheenin telling me about this set up last summer) What would the final reduction be in low low? Is it just a 4:1 or is it lower? Seems to me that it would be 4:1. I don't know how to do the math (do you just ad them) but the 231 is 2.72:1 and the dana300 is 2.62:1. am I coming to the right conclusions here?

You can also do some serious upgrades to the D300 as time/money permits. JB Conversions has a 32-spline front and rear (Stak does too), along with their 4:1 kit. Their 4:1 is damned nice as well and priced WAY below that of the 231 Tera kit.

[justin'sbig7]

4 to 1 in a d 300 with a doubler 231 would get ya 10.88:1! :101:

[gonecheenin]

AX5 1st, NP231 2.72:1 low, D300 2.61:1 low, stock 4.10 gears = 115:1 crawl. (Perfect crawl ratio for around a 38" tire is 135-140:1 IMHO)

That 115:1 is EASILY enough to give phenominal control on the roughest trails with 35's AND break your stock D30/D35 shafts @ idle if you wedge a tire.

A stock twin sticked D300 can be put in any selection you can think off except one axle in high & the other in low - or fwd high. You can modify the shift rails if you want those two options as well, but I don't plan to myself.

Some Pirate drama, but overall very good tech thread on DD machines doubler (Mad Rooster stopped making them because he said the return was not worth the effort, especially once Duffy started making his version);
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=696803

Duffy got tired of Pirates crap & left, so I bought mine off him from Ebay;
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/doubler-crawlbox-NP-231-box4rocks-kit-jeep-Klune-V_W0QQitemZ160398568544QQcmdZViewItemQQptZMotors_C ar_Truck_Parts_Accessories?hash=item25587fec60

I sent him a message that I wanted his easy flip twin sticks as well (I think they were $150-ish);
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=505924&highlight=


This is what I have laying in my garage waiting for time/inclination;
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v83/BlackListWheelers/Gonecheenin/92%20YJ%20May07/doubler/Doubler.jpg

[OverkillZJ]

I'd love one of those in front of the buggies 5:1 atlas - the gears in the axles are only 4.56 and some times I'd like it to be lower.

[justin'sbig7]

cheen, is that a 231/231 doubler, or does it work with the d300 as well?

[Krod]

4 to 1 in a d 300 with a doubler 231 would get ya 10.88:1! :101:


The stock 300 case will not hold that much reduction, it becomes your weak link. Of course you COULD just get the StaK replace-a-case for the 300 (including the Driver Drop option)...then you're fine. :045:

Thats the only reason I'm going for the 4spd atlas right out of the gate, otherwise the 231/D300 doubler is a better combo and less $$$.

[tjblair]

Good stuff here guys, thanks for all the info.

[moparfan1]

Awesome!

[justin'sbig7]

i dont think i would go that low (10:1), but i like the multiple low range choices the most about this.

[ridgerunner97]

WHEN, LOL WHEN, I do mine down the road here I would more than likely leave the ratios stock in both transfer cases and have 4.56's in the axles. That will be enough for what I want, and if not I can change the gears in the 300. I love the idea of the 231/300 doubler, and Cheenin, I was gonna PM you cuz I was lookin in that thread on pirate and saw that you bought the D.D. Machine kit. Good stuff, I didn't know he had an ebay store. Lots of good stuff in this thread :)

[2002wranglerX]

just posing this question...

you can get an atlas 4 speed for 2500 bucks... you can do a bare bones atlas for 1800ish (and i've heard less)...

what's it going to cost you to do this?

i know doing a D300 with a flip kit and a 4:1 gets you at about the same price as an atlas 4:1....

how much more is it going to be to then double?

i seriously looked at doing a D300 in the TJ but for the $ it's gonna cost me to 4:1 it, buy the D300, and the flip kit i might as well just buy an atlas...

[tjblair]

just posing this question...

you can get an atlas 4 speed for 2500 bucks... you can do a bare bones atlas for 1800ish (and i've heard less)...

what's it going to cost you to do this?

i know doing a D300 with a flip kit and a 4:1 gets you at about the same price as an atlas 4:1....

how much more is it going to be to then double?

i seriously looked at doing a D300 in the TJ but for the $ it's gonna cost me to 4:1 it, buy the D300, and the flip kit i might as well just buy an atlas...
I guess it all depends on what you can find a d300 for. The doubler from Duffy's is $499 the twin stick kit is like 150 or so. Am I forgetting any thing else? I guess you dont really need the flip kit acording to Krod you can just flip it and double seal the shift rods.



Why would u need to 4:1 the 300, I mean 10:1 would be cool, but damn.


The more I think about it I'm really leaning twords the 231/300.


Cheenin does duffy's kit come with the block off plate? Not that it would be a big deal to make one I was just wondering.

[Krod]

just posing this question...

you can get an atlas 4 speed for 2500 bucks... you can do a bare bones atlas for 1800ish (and i've heard less)...

what's it going to cost you to do this?

i know doing a D300 with a flip kit and a 4:1 gets you at about the same price as an atlas 4:1....

how much more is it going to be to then double?

i seriously looked at doing a D300 in the TJ but for the $ it's gonna cost me to 4:1 it, buy the D300, and the flip kit i might as well just buy an atlas...

Better check your prices on the 4 speeds. If you can get me one for $2500, please post your source with the following options...

4 spd 5.44 Reduction
STD tail
No speedo
1350 CV R
1350 F
Universal Cable shifters


You can buy them bare bones for close to that price...but not equipped and ready to run.

[2002wranglerX]

Better check your prices on the 4 speeds. If you can get me one for $2500, please post your source with the following options...

4 spd 5.44 Reduction
STD tail
No speedo
1350 CV R
1250 F
Universal Cable shifters


You can buy them bare bones for close to that price...but not equipped and ready to run.

ya that's true, i just google searched the 4 speeds and saw em at 2500.

i'm just doing a normal ol 4.3:1. I have a few buddies that supposedly can get me into one (bare bones) for 1500... then i'll need the rest of course.

when i was pricing out D300's it seemed to work out to be the same. 4.3:1 and 5.13's should be fine. hell, i'm dealing fine with the 2.73 and 5.13's now.

I was just tossing it out there.

i figured 575 for the flip kit
The D300 (300ish???)
4:1 for the D300 850

I'm pretty much where i'd be for the atlas 2 speed... But obviously the Klune would have 3 speeds... which would be cool...

I was just posing the question.

[dan58]

I've picked up D300s for $50. You don't need a flip kit at all. For under a hundred bucks, you can piece together cable shifters from McMaster Carr. $75 for a clocking ring. Run it. Enjoy the twin sticks.
There is no need to spend $500 on a a flip kit. Double seal the shift rails. If you want more gears, JB has the 4:1 kit for $550. You can pick up the HD outputs for about the same money. You'll have a damned good case for $1200. No Atlas is going to touch that money, and the JB's gears are bigger. The beauty of the D300 is that you can upgrade as time and money permits. http://www.jbconversions.com/products/dana300/

If you can find ANY Atlas for $1500, get all of them you can. Does that include 32-spline HD outputs on both ends? An Atlas might be the only piece of offroad equipment that retains value. A new one will run you $2K+ all day long.

[2002wranglerX]

I've picked up D300s for $50. You don't need a flip kit at all. For under a hundred bucks, you can piece together cable shifters from McMaster Carr. $75 for a clocking ring. Run it. Enjoy the twin sticks.
There is no need to spend $500 on a a flip kit. Double seal the shift rails. If you want more gears, JB has the 4:1 kit for $550. You can pick up the HD outputs for about the same money. You'll have a damned good case for $1200. No Atlas is going to touch that money, and the JB's gears are bigger. The beauty of the D300 is that you can upgrade as time and money permits. http://www.jbconversions.com/products/dana300/

If you can find ANY Atlas for $1500, get all of them you can. Does that include 32-spline HD outputs on both ends? An Atlas might be the only piece of offroad equipment that retains value. A new one will run you $2K+ all day long.

Hey, i'm just tellin you what my hookup said. by the time i added up my time, labor, and the $ to put a D300 into the TJ i figured i'd do an atlas. I figured 2k ready to bolt in with all the add ons.

I'll have to check into the D300 if i really don't need a full flip kit, but i defenitely want a minimum of 4:1 or it's not worth doing.

i also want to see where it's going to end up after the V8 and auto swap. whether it'll be forward or more back...

[2002wranglerX]

actually the cable shifters would make that easier... you got a link?

[justin'sbig7]

clickity
http://www.mcmaster.com/#throttle-cable/=5mema6

i was researching it earlier. i think i am gonna make my own shifters though.

also, you can flip a d300 for less than 20 bucks. i havent found a write up on the double seal setup though.

heres a way of doing it.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=161815&highlight=dana+flip

[Christopher]

Thanks to this thread I'm using my d300 as an sye for the yj woo hoo:026:

[2002wranglerX]

Thanks to this thread I'm using my d300 as an sye for the yj woo hoo:026:

seriously! even with all the reading i've done i have never seen anyone mention this stuff.

I might even have a line on a cheap D300... that could get this whole thing in with a 4:1 for under a grand....

[gonecheenin]

Here's an interesting doubler read;

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=739055&highlight=231+doubler



cheen, is that a 231/231 doubler, or does it work with the d300 as well?

Yes. LOL

It is both. Duffy's setup will work with anything with a standard 6 bolt round pattern for the second case. I bought his most popular one which has the 23 spline output to use a Jeep/Dodge style second case (with the full intention of putting a D300 behind it for the most compact package).
But he does sell them with 23, 27, & 32 spline outputs as well (31 spline was discussed, but I don't know if it ever happened)


just posing this question...

you can get an atlas 4 speed for 2500 bucks... you can do a bare bones atlas for 1800ish (and i've heard less)...

what's it going to cost you to do this?

i know doing a D300 with a flip kit and a 4:1 gets you at about the same price as an atlas 4:1....

how much more is it going to be to then double?

i seriously looked at doing a D300 in the TJ but for the $ it's gonna cost me to 4:1 it, buy the D300, and the flip kit i might as well just buy an atlas...

My theory on buying this kit was that no one has broken the kit's parts that wasn't abusing them beyond belief (I think ONE guy broke a 23 spline shaft on huge tires with a big V-8 in front of it, and I'm not even sure that happened!), and no one has broken the setup regularly or at all when installed with some thought behind it (not just slapped in there with zero support than beat on with big power & tires).

Therefore, my $500 investment is way cheaper than buying any 4:1 setup or aftermarket case like the D300 4:1, 231 Tera-low, 241OR Roc-trac, Atlas, or Staks - and is lighter than a 203/D300 or NP205 - since if anything breaks/fails/wears out, it should be a bone stock junkyard part.

See some of the breakage that has occurred here;

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=800002&highlight=231+doubler


If you read thoroughly, though there has definitely been breakage (this is afterall a fairly new idea requiring some working out of kinks), there has also been MANY running these setups with no issues in VERY large & aggressive rigs. (And there are some of those breaking one ton axle parts while the doubler keeps chugging merrily along!)

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v11/RockReady/Clayton%20OKlahoma%20April%202009/IMG_1567.jpg

The mounting is the most important part - that 231 case is not made to handle all that weight & stress by itself!!!
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/gallery/files/3/1/6/2/1/DSC03694.JPG


I plan on building a cradle to support & tie together both case AND run a rod from the D300 up to a bellhousing bolt just like GM did when they started running the NP208's in the Chevy trucks.

I believe by doing that AND making sure my driveshaft has enough travel & no other random outside forces cause any issues, that my setup should work wonderfully.



Why would u need to 4:1 the 300, I mean 10:1 would be cool, but damn.

The 4:1 already stress's the D300's stock case (remember gear-gear trys to push apart, not pull together like a chain drive), putting an additional 2.72 multiplication in front of it is certian disaster.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=805274&highlight=d300+case+broken




The more I think about it I'm really leaning twords the 231/300.

Cheenin does duffy's kit come with the block off plate? Not that it would be a big deal to make one I was just wondering.


It does come with the block off plate. Everything in that pic was purchased from him, his kit was very complete!



clickity
http://www.mcmaster.com/#throttle-cable/=5mema6

i was researching it earlier. i think i am gonna make my own shifters though.

also, you can flip a d300 for less than 20 bucks. i havent found a write up on the double seal setup though.

heres a way of doing it.
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=161815&highlight=dana+flip


I plan on installing single new shift seals, pluggin the breather & installing a new one in the pan drain hole, & turning the case upside down. According to Duffy they do that all the time in his area & they work fine with no leaks.

[justin'sbig7]

have you found a write up for the double seal on the shift rails? i am prolly gonna flip my 300 when i throw the 60 under the front and am currently trying to get my ducks in a row

[Christopher]

have you found a write up for the double seal on the shift rails? i am prolly gonna flip my 300 when i throw the 60 under the front and am currently trying to get my ducks in a row

I havent seen it either but I am guessing it is just "stacking" the shift rail seals somehow
I plan to find out quick as I am working on this for the yj as of a few hours ago .

[RalphXJ]

have you found a write up for the double seal on the shift rails? i am prolly gonna flip my 300 when i throw the 60 under the front and am currently trying to get my ducks in a row

Post up on NEC about this, I know Matt Peters (shopteach) has been running this setup for years on his CJ!!

[tjblair]

I'm getting ready to order up this box4rocks ,and I had a stupid question. My jeep is a 4cyl with a 231j which I believe is a 21 spline input. Now duffy offers a couple of different spline counts. Am I thinking right here? I plan on cutting up my 231 and coupling it to a d300. I think taht the kit that I should order is the 23 spline......right? I believe that is the input of the d300.


I am thinking that the only way I would order a 21 splne kit is if I were planning on coupling another 4cyl 231 to this one........Right




On a side note I am still looking for a d300 so if you got or know where one is let me know.

[Krod]

yep.

[Deadman 94 xj]

Can somebody explain, or lead me to a link, that describes the benefits of a 231/231 doubler? I get the D300 but why the 231?

I have a spare 231 sitting around. If I can do something with it cheap, I just might.

Thanks.

Edit: Nevermind.

[Christopher]

On a side note I am still looking for a d300 so if you got or know where one is let me know.

Do you want a long or short output shaft?
I belive the difference is somewhere around an 1" - 1.5" Speedo hookup is easier on the long one I think
I have a short one at the house or I can get a long output pretty quick.

[tjblair]

Do you want a long or short output shaft?
I belive the difference is somewhere around an 1" - 1.5" Speedo hookup is easier on the long one I think
I have a short one at the house or I can get a long output pretty quick.
PM sent.