I must have done a crappy job...

[PAFirefighter49]

Because I got the front end back together with new bearings and inner seals....and I took it out on a test drive to find that:

a. It grinds sometimes under heavy acceleration, but not often.
b. It grinds during braking.
c. It grinds making a right hand turn.
d. The front driveshaft reveals a lot of play in the front end. Estimated at maybe 1/8"??

WTF?

It doesn't get any better or worse in 4wd.

Could my housing be bad? I put the stock shims in with the new bearings (which are identical in size to stock -- I checked).

It isn't the front U-joint, because I grabbed the front yoke just outside the carrier and the front diff still has the same play.

Does anyone have a shop that could fix this? I'm at wit's end with it and I'm out of time and money to be throwing away if i don't actually know what's wrong with it...

[abrzrkr]

Broken motor mount?

[tjblair]

Did you use replace the pinion bearings? if so did you install a new crush sleeve? how much backlash is there? what is the pinion preload? what is the pinion depth ?what did the pattern look like? If you don't know what any of these are,or how to chech them then you probablly shouldnt be trying to rebuild and axel. If there is alot of play in the pinion, the gears are most likley junk now, if they wern't before. You can't always just throw back in the same amount of shims as stock. 99% of the time you can get away with it, but not always.

[tjblair]

If it grinds during brakeing and right turns, most likley somthing is up withe the right wheelbearing. but I would be a little more worried about the play in the pinion.

[PAFirefighter49]

Did you use replace the pinion bearings? if so did you install a new crush sleeve? how much backlash is there? what is the pinion preload? what is the pinion depth ?what did the pattern look like? If you don't know what any of these are,or how to chech them then you probablly shouldnt be trying to rebuild and axel. If there is alot of play in the pinion, the gears are most likley junk now, if they wern't before. You can't always just throw back in the same amount of shims as stock. 99% of the time you can get away with it, but not always.


I know what all of that is - - - that being said, i had no means to check it. However the gears never came out of the carrier. Before I put the cover back on, everything felt nice and tight in there. I put the stock shims back in.

Is the crush sleeve the little rubber ring that goes just outside the inner seals? if so, then yes, i replaced them. I also did both front wheel bearings and u-joints thinking that they were the issue before I went and tore the diff open.

[PAFirefighter49]

Oh and the gears looked pristine when I took the carrier out and cleaned everything up... doubt they're junk I only test drove it for 1 mile, 2 max to see what was up.

[OverkillZJ]

The Yoke has the play before the driveshaft? You need to set that pinion preload before anything else, or if there's a crush sleve maybe you collapsed it.

[PAFirefighter49]

The Yoke has the play before the driveshaft? You need to set that pinion preload before anything else, or if there's a crush sleve maybe you collapsed it.

How do I set the preload on the pinion, and what do I need to do it with? is it possible the pinion is bad?

This became a problem after I blew the tranny out...I originally thought that the weakest link (D30) went with the driveline tension that blowing reverse caused....but the gears looked fine.

[Krod]

How do I set the preload on the pinion, and what do I need to do it with? is it possible the pinion is bad?

This became a problem after I blew the tranny out...I originally thought that the weakest link (D30) went with the driveline tension that blowing reverse caused....but the gears looked fine.


Ok, I'm totally lost. Did you remove the gears or not? Not just the carrier/spiders/ring-gear...but the pinion too.

[OverkillZJ]

I'm confused too, the way I read it, I thought you just set or replaced gears in the front axle?

What did you do before this noise started?

When you said "front end" I assume front axle.

[PAFirefighter49]

OK i blew the transmission out and then replaced it. After I got it in, i noticed a heavy grinding coming from the front axle. I double checked everything and ended up replacing both wheel bearings and (axle) u joints. After that, i test drove it again. Noise still coming from the front. So I popped the diff cover, and expected to see my spiders in pieces. But they werent. All the gears looked fine. The bearings looked very worn, so I popped the carrier out and replaced the inner seals and the bearings. The gears never came out of the carrier and I never took the pinion gear out.... Not sure where I went wrong. :/

[OverkillZJ]

What happens when you grab the yoke? Can you move it around? If the carrier bearings were visibly worn, don't know why the pinion bearings wouldn't be too - just a thought

[tjblair]

Ok the gears DID come out otherwise you would not have been able to do the carrier bearings. you may be thinking that since you didn't pull the spiders out of the carrier that you didn't remove the gears. ( this is wrong)
I would say that you probably need to do pinion bearings, and most likley ring and pinion( you wont know if you need the ring and pinion until you try to run a pattern)
the gears may look perfectly fine, but if the pinion head has been walking around on the ring gear you will probably not get them to pattern right again.
if you don't have the tools to do this job correctly (such as an in lb torque wrench, and a dial indicator, micrometer) then you just need to take it to someone who knows what they are doing,and has these tools. Otherwise you are probably going to end up costing yourself more money. I'm not trying to be a dick, I am trying to save you some money.:gear_nonplussed:

[PAFirefighter49]

Ok the gears DID come out otherwise you would not have been able to do the carrier bearings. you may be thinking that since you didn't pull the spiders out of the carrier that you didn't remove the gears. ( this is wrong)
I would say that you probably need to do pinion bearings, and most likley ring and pinion( you wont know if you need the ring and pinion until you try to run a pattern)
the gears may look perfectly fine, but if the pinion head has been walking around on the ring gear you will probably not get them to pattern right again.
if you don't have the tools to do this job correctly (such as an in lb torque wrench, and a dial indicator, micrometer) then you just need to take it to someone who knows what they are doing,and has these tools. Otherwise you are probably going to end up costing yourself more money. I'm not trying to be a dick, I am trying to save you some money.:gear_nonplussed:

I hear ya. I just don't have the money to be paying someone to do all of it. I'll just have to wait a month or so until I can get it to a shop I guess :/.

[Krod]

If you have to run it while you're saving for a gear job, pull the carrier/spiders (leave the pinion in), the inner axle shafts (leave the outers or you'll grenade the unit bearings) and the front drive shaft.

You can drive it like this without any problems, and without risking further damage to your gears (if they're still good to begin with).

[tjblair]

^ agreed

[ridgerunner97]

like krod said MAKE SURE YOU PUT YOUR STUB SHAFTS BACK IN!!!!!! The three bolts that hold the unit bearing on are not strong enough to handle driving on them alone. You will lose a wheel if you do not put the stubs back in. Pull the inners, take the stubs off and put them in the hubs and put it back together, you will be good to go and not damage anything else while your saving funds. Make sure to stuff a rag in each axle tube to keep any stuff out of the tubes.

[Krod]

like krod said MAKE SURE YOU PUT YOUR STUB SHAFTS BACK IN!!!!!! The three bolts that hold the unit bearing on are not strong enough to handle driving on them alone. You will lose a wheel if you do not put the stubs back in. Pull the inners, take the stubs off and put them in the hubs and put it back together, you will be good to go and not damage anything else while your saving funds. Make sure to stuff a rag in each axle tube to keep any stuff out of the tubes.

It has nothing to do with the bolts. It has to do with the preload on the bearings in the unit-bearings. Without the shaft in there and torqued to spec, the bearings are not preloaded, and will wear prematurely. Remember to torque the shaft nut after you re-install the unit-bearings in the knuckle!!

[ridgerunner97]

Do you trust those 3 bolts holding a tire, rotor, etc. onto the knuckle under a cornering load? I surely do not. I'm not arguing with your rationale but there is a safety aspect there imho also. I could be wrong but hey.

[Krod]

Do you trust those 3 bolts holding a tire, rotor, etc. onto the knuckle under a cornering load? I surely do not. I'm not arguing with your rationale but there is a safety aspect there imho also. I could be wrong but hey.

Yes, I do. The bolts see very minimal shear loading and are sized appropriately for the load they carry. The bearing housing is a tight fit to the knuckle and has a shoulder that sits inside of the knuckle itself. See below.

http://www.fototime.com/7BA171EB74D8511/standard.jpg


The shaft being in there has ZERO effect on the wheel staying on the jeep, OTHER than preloading the bearing. The 3 bolts and the fit between the bearing assembly and the knuckle are what keeps the wheel attached securely.




For reference:
The torque spec on the 3 bearing mounting studs is 75 ft-lbs.
The torque spec on the 36mm hub nut is 175 ft-lbs.

[2002wranglerX]

There is a lot of stupid in this thread

[ridgerunner97]

^ How so? I never stated I was right, I understand Krod's explanation now, it makes sense, I wasn't thinking.

[tjblair]

Yes, I do. The bolts see very minimal shear loading and are sized appropriately for the load they carry. The bearing housing is a tight fit to the knuckle and has a shoulder that sits inside of the knuckle itself. See below.

http://www.fototime.com/7BA171EB74D8511/standard.jpg


The shaft being in there has ZERO effect on the wheel staying on the jeep, OTHER than preloading the bearing. The 3 bolts and the fit between the bearing assembly and the knuckle are what keeps the wheel attached securely.




For reference:
The torque spec on the 3 bearing mounting studs is 75 ft-lbs.
The torque spec on the 36mm hub nut is 175 ft-lbs.
agreed, again

[tjblair]

There is a lot of stupid in this thread

Please, do tell

[PAFirefighter49]

I'm probably gonna take some paint and see if the gears track sometime sunday. Anyone have a ballpark of what a shop is going to squeeze me for to do the work? It can't be more than an hour or two or labor...if parts are needed I'll provide...

[Deadman 94 xj]

About $250.

[PAFirefighter49]

Honestly that isnt bad.... I need it done...

Anyone have suggestions? Preferably close to Washington, or Robinson?