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ridgerunner97
06-25-2010, 05:51 PM
I don't have the coin to make a set of longarms or the time right now but I want to do a set of arms to practice for when its time to make the big boy setup LOL and plus it will get my angle's completely back to stock in the front, as well as bein stronger than the stock arms, so....

I've got various size diameter of scrap steel tubing laying around, both round and square. anywhere from 3/16 to 1/4 wall. What would you guys make a set of adj. short arms out of? Also as to Joints what would you fellas use? I'm opposed to heims of course but what would you fellas run i'm torn on what I should do.

fmlyof4whlrs
06-25-2010, 06:24 PM
I would use the square for the main length...weld some round to one end for a bushing and get weld in bungs and Johnny joints for the other for flex and adjustment. Otherwise if you want to keep it cheap...figure out the length you need and weld some round tube on both ends of a square link for bushings.

ridgerunner97
06-25-2010, 06:42 PM
Yeah I was thinkin square as well, what diam. and wall thickness you thinkin? I was also thinkin bushing one end and Cartridge Joint on the other. I'm new to this suspension fab stuff for the most part LOL not sure what wall thickness and diameter material is acceptable or complete overkill haha

john00TJ
06-25-2010, 07:04 PM
id do bushing/johnny johnny joint on whatever i had that was .250 wall on the lowers

tjblair
06-25-2010, 07:06 PM
1/4 wall square is a little overkill, but I have built them with that. thats what Clayton uses for their lower links.

ridgerunner97
06-25-2010, 08:00 PM
Good stuff guys, more opinions are what i'm lookin for. Now What size square you guys thinkin, 1.5in, 1.75in, or 2in? Those are what I have access to. I was thinkin 2in square cuz when I look at 1.5in square it just looks tiny, even though it more than likely is MUCH stronger than stock.

john00TJ
06-25-2010, 08:17 PM
its going to have to be something with a 1.5 ID to run the larger shanked johnny joints with a tube insert

XJchris98
06-25-2010, 08:17 PM
1/4 wall square is a little overkill, but I have built them with that. thats what Clayton uses for their lower links.

Maybe...but youll NEVER bend/break/twist/destory them. They work as an excellent skid too. The cost for 1/4 wall tube over something less is marginal (or should be if your building control arms).




I'd suggest 2x2x1/4 square tube. I have to ask though, if your going through the time/trouble to make a custom set of short arms, why not just make some longarms? Yeah, you might have to buy some steel, but why buy bushings/rod ends/JJ's/inserts/etc twice? Just my opinion....

Deadman 94 xj
06-25-2010, 08:21 PM
I agree. Measure twice and cut once. It'll work out.

tjblair
06-25-2010, 08:24 PM
[QUOTE=XJchris98;215059]Maybe...but youll NEVER bend/break/twist/destory them. They work as an excellent skid too. The cost for 1/4 wall tube over something less is marginal (or should be if your building control arms).




I agree, like I said I have built them out 2x2in 1\4 wall. in fact when I have to make new ones for mine that is what I plan on using.

I also think that you should just go with long arms if you are going through all that trouble.

ridgerunner97
06-25-2010, 08:43 PM
I'd suggest 2x2x1/4 square tube. I have to ask though, if your going through the time/trouble to make a custom set of short arms, why not just make some longarms? Yeah, you might have to buy some steel, but why buy bushings/rod ends/JJ's/inserts/etc twice? Just my opinion....

Haha okay, I knew someone was gonna ask, here is the deal, I don't have the money for the steel to do a crossmember or to get a xmember to mount LA's too right now, so my though is with this scrap steel I have layin around make sum short arms, i'll be able to reuse the joints that I use in the short arms in the LA's when I make those next summer or fall hopefully, so really no waste here except a lil time in the long run but i'm saving time in the present. Kinda following me??? It makes sense in my delusional mind... :)

Deadman 94 xj
06-25-2010, 08:48 PM
I think the joints are what's going to cost you. I'm not up to date on the cost of steel right now but I know there are deals out there. Hell, somebody here probably has enough lying around. Did you decide on whether you're going to do a y link or 4 link? I think a y link would be cheaper but the 4 link would be easier...except for the cross member. Hell, build a 3 link and plate a little on the passenger side rail to attach it to. JMO.


...and please lets not turn this into a link vs Y link debate :biggrin:

ridgerunner97
06-25-2010, 09:04 PM
^ LMFAO 4 link vs. Y link debate FTW! Nah in all reality i'll only have about 150 or so in joints AND tube adapters and no money in steel tube, which makes these lower short arms EXTREMELY feasible for me. When the time comes to do the LA's Tom, i'm still torn between throwin a Clayton's xmember on her and doin custom radius arms kinda like their's or doin a custom homeade BDS style xmember and doin a true 4 link. I don't think I want a 3 link, I just don't like the idea of the front axle bein located by one bolt more or less. Guys say less is more but I don't just like that saying when we're talkin about it in a suspension setup :)

Deadman 94 xj
06-25-2010, 09:18 PM
I see what you're saying. Go for it :)

ridgerunner97
06-25-2010, 09:36 PM
haha don't egg me on, gotta get my order in tomorrow night from ballistic to take advantage of the summer sale and 10% off discount unless anyone else knows a better place to get a good deal on cartridge style joints...aka Johnny Joint, Ballistic Joint, blah blah blah LOL

fmlyof4whlrs
06-26-2010, 10:10 AM
2x2 1/4 wall should work good...but if you spending 150 on joints now why not give up 2 cases of beer or so for another 50 in metal for the crossmember. No point in doing it twice right.

limegreentj
06-26-2010, 10:14 AM
^ troof.

13below0
06-30-2010, 08:24 PM
2x2 square .250 wall. contact me for some square tube adapters. I will make you a hell of a deal on some left hand adapters. this should be the currie number part #: CE-9114L

13below0
06-30-2010, 08:29 PM
Im with everyone else, do this once and have someone that knows what there doing weld it. Especially if your putting your family in there. Saftey is no accident!!

JunkJeep
07-13-2010, 07:54 PM
I've been down this road before, and my advice is to buy a kit. Rough Country sells a 4.5" long arm kit with everyting you'll need to do the lift; drop pitman arm, HD cross member, uper/lower control arms leaf springs, even a t-case skid plate and sway bar disco's and shocks for $1,000, put it on a credit card and make the payments. Its tried, true, and comes with support and a warranty. Believe me, you'll have $1,500 and a thousand hours into doing something custom and you'll constantly be changing, moving, and fixing stuff. Its well worth the money. But if you have to, go with 1/4" its easier to weld, strong enough for anything you can do to it. As for square vs round, i'd go round, square looks too home made.

ridgerunner97
07-13-2010, 07:59 PM
Thanks for the input, i'm just doin Short arms right now, and when the Jeep goes up another inch next spring, it will get a LA upgrade kit from somebody hopefully later in next year's season or the off the season If I think I want to go that route and the money is there. I'm not into spending money I don't have especially on Jeep parts. If its something I need then yeah I will do it but I will never put my Jeep and the addiction before other things that are more important.

Deadman 94 xj
07-13-2010, 08:37 PM
Yeah, that square stuff is just ugly... :biggrin:

limegreentj
07-13-2010, 08:53 PM
I've been down this road before, and my advice is to buy a kit. Rough Country sells a 4.5" long arm kit with everyting you'll need to do the lift; drop pitman arm, HD cross member, uper/lower control arms leaf springs, even a t-case skid plate and sway bar disco's and shocks for $1,000, put it on a credit card and make the payments. Its tried, true, and comes with support and a warranty. Believe me, you'll have $1,500 and a thousand hours into doing something custom and you'll constantly be changing, moving, and fixing stuff. Its well worth the money. But if you have to, go with 1/4" its easier to weld, strong enough for anything you can do to it. As for square vs round, i'd go round, square looks too home made.


not everyone wants to put 1k on a credit card and worry about paying it off, even though i have the money and i could do that, i get more satisfaction out of building something nicer and cheaper than just way overspending with a card. i'd rather have more toys than just one built toy.

muddeprived
07-13-2010, 11:17 PM
I've been down this road before, and my advice is to buy a kit. Rough Country sells a 4.5" long arm kit with everyting you'll need to do the lift; drop pitman arm, HD cross member, uper/lower control arms leaf springs, even a t-case skid plate and sway bar disco's and shocks for $1,000, put it on a credit card and make the payments. Its tried, true, and comes with support and a warranty. Believe me, you'll have $1,500 and a thousand hours into doing something custom and you'll constantly be changing, moving, and fixing stuff. Its well worth the money. But if you have to, go with 1/4" its easier to weld, strong enough for anything you can do to it. As for square vs round, i'd go round, square looks too home made.

I have this kit and I can say it's not really worth the grand I paid for it. The arms are ok but the springs rusted to crap within three months and are stiff as hell. I have cement blocks in the rear just to keep it from launching on bumps. The shocks rods are cheaply chromed and rusted up and I had to take a wire brush to em, not to mention I had to modify them to stop the annoying banging noise from the crappy design. The crossmember is peeling and turning brown as I speak and it has the tranny mount bolts exposed at the bottom for rocks to abuse. The trackbar is scary thin and I had it replaced asap (think of Rusty's t-bar). The sway bar links are clunking a little and I haven't even taken it off road yet. It's still in one piece though so I give it credit for that. I've had it on since the end of December and about 1k miles or so.

I already have plans to replace the shocks with bilsteins and springs with BDS springs. I admit I should've listened to those who warned me to go RK/Clayton/RE instead but the excitement of being one of the first to have the kit and the price tag beat me into buyin it.....

steveg0690
07-13-2010, 11:34 PM
I've been down this road before, and my advice is to buy a kit. Rough Country sells a 4.5" long arm kit with everyting you'll need to do the lift; drop pitman arm, HD cross member, uper/lower control arms leaf springs, even a t-case skid plate and sway bar disco's and shocks for $1,000, put it on a credit card and make the payments. Its tried, true, and comes with support and a warranty. Believe me, you'll have $1,500 and a thousand hours into doing something custom and you'll constantly be changing, moving, and fixing stuff. Its well worth the money. But if you have to, go with 1/4" its easier to weld, strong enough for anything you can do to it. As for square vs round, i'd go round, square looks too home made.

Does anyone know who this guy is? No intro, he just seemed to have come on here "pushing" his opinions. WTF.

-hijack over-

oros35
07-14-2010, 10:28 AM
2x2x1/4" square.
Currie Johnny Joints
Stay away from the poly bushing type, they wear out many times faster than Johny Joints

Nothing wrong with building them. Not much to them and the cost of pre made kits is crazy.

13below0
07-14-2010, 01:06 PM
I run JJ's at 1 end and our bushings on the axle side. I have had them bushings in there for over 2 years now and there still good. I think a trick that most of the kits dont use is that you need delrin or something to act as a bearing to keep the crush sleeve free from just ripping the bushings apart.

oros35
07-14-2010, 01:25 PM
I think a trick that most of the kits dont use is that you need delrin or something to act as a bearing to keep the crush sleeve free from just ripping the bushings apart.

That's where mine kept failing at. Ended up tearing the poly and making a soft spot for the crush sleeve to dig into. didn't take long before they were pretty sloppy.

Now My upper rears are doing ok, but they don't carry as much load. The bushings on the lowers didn't last. Switched to JJ and still nice and tight.

muddeprived
07-14-2010, 01:46 PM
My RC long arms use johnny joints at one end and poly bushings at the other end (upper arms use stock rubber on axle). Should i be worried? It's a y-link setup.

oros35
07-14-2010, 03:36 PM
Should i be worried? It's a y-link setup.

I wheel mine as much as it see's road time. And wheel pretty hard compared to most.

I would keep an eye on them but wouldn't be worried.

SirFuego
07-14-2010, 04:37 PM
For long arms, I wouldn't go any thinner than 1/4" wall. Once you get long arms, you will get used to using them as skid plates, too. I abuse my 2x2x1/4 Clayton arms pretty good and they hold up nicely. My buddy, however, has bowed his Clayton's arm -- so it's not going to be indesctructible. BUT, it hasn't broken or anything. My driving style is aggressive when needed, but his drivetrain is relatively bulletproof so he's not afraid to drive "fast" in the rocks for the hell of it. FWIW, he told me that it still tracks straight on the road.

With all the KOH/go fast stuff, I'm starting to see control arms getting a lot more elaborate with gusseting, dimple dies, etc -- sorta like what you see on the desert trophy trucks. However, for most of what we do, 1/4" would be fine.

That said, for short arms, you could get away with less because the arms themselves will actually be more resistant to bending than long arms (think of trying to break a 3 foot stick vs breaking a 1 foot stick -- the 1 foot stick is going to be harder to break). However, since you are building them to practice for long arms, might be a good idea to stick with the same type of material.

JunkJeep
07-14-2010, 09:55 PM
Oh, sorry. Kinda thought thats what forums were all about. Never said u had to take my advice, thats just how i feel about the topic. Take it or leave it. Just saying, i know i'm not the only one here who has started a fab project with the intention of saving money and trying to make it better than what i can buy, then ended up spending way more money and wasting alot of time. I've had my kit about a year now and have had none of the issues muddeprived stated. Its all american made completely adjustable and way stronger than the vehicle its being bolted to. I dont know what you expect to hear when you ask a question like this. Am i just supposed to agree and tell you whatever you want to hear, or am i supposed to give my real opinion? I expected this kinda crap from a ricer forum but not a 4x4 forum.

oros35
07-14-2010, 11:34 PM
I've also bowed a 2x2x1/4" long arm very similar to Clayton's. But it still works just fine and didn't blow the joints.

ridgerunner97
01-28-2011, 08:11 PM
Still sticking short arm, If i'm making a set that would be non adjustable, which would you make non adjustable? The uppers or the lowers? I'm thinking the lowers fixed, so I can use the uppers to Adjust the pinion angle and caster effectively. Am I correct in my thinking? Sometimes my brain out thinks itself LOL

muddeprived
01-29-2011, 12:47 AM
Still sticking short arm, If i'm making a set that would be non adjustable, which would you make non adjustable? The uppers or the lowers? I'm thinking the lowers fixed, so I can use the uppers to Adjust the pinion angle and caster effectively. Am I correct in my thinking? Sometimes my brain out thinks itself LOL

I would do lowers adjustable and uppers fixed. Or both adjustable.

ezman
01-29-2011, 01:17 AM
i'd say lowers fixed (just measure correctly) and uppers adjustable. but if you are making them why not just make both adjustable?

ridgerunner97
01-29-2011, 08:48 AM
^ Cost goes up. Priced Johnny Joints and tube inserts lately? :)

fmlyof4whlrs
01-29-2011, 01:46 PM
I don't think it would matter one way or the other. I just looked at my BDS with super flex joints and they recommended mounting the bushing at the axle end to absorb vibes from bumps and things so you would want your johnny joint at the frame mount. If only making one adjustable I would probably do the uppers that way you don't have an threads on the bottom arms that may get damaged while crawling ledges. I would also measure and try to put a little stretch in them if you can. Maybe make them 1 inch longer or something. You don't have to go huge but while doing it you might as well take advantage.

ridgerunner97
01-29-2011, 09:02 PM
^ Thats what my thoughts were, maybe make the lowers a hair longer than stock and make the uppers adjustable. I plan on bushings at the axle side and keepin the JJ's up on the chassis side to protect them...Might start on these things tomorrow if I get the motivation.