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View Full Version : NewBee looking for welder for Teenage Son



fathersnsons
08-28-2010, 09:57 AM
First thx everyone for your mentoring. Your help resulted in great buys on each :), 1) a trailer, & 2) a compressor

But now I need a crash course on welders. FYI as some of you know, my health keeps me from doing so many things I would love to do with Steven (who just got his permit, YEAH) and his friends in the garage.

However the good news is Steven is learning and he loves the mechanics of building up the XJ. This is a far cry from his comment 'Just take it to Rob @ Meridian' when he was about 11 yrs old. (We love Jeff,Rob,& Terry but I explained 1) we cannot afford to build it that way, & 2) doing as much as we can is what the sport is all about.)

ANYWAY, I need help. TIG, MIG, GAS, NO GAS, new / used, wire.... ? Something safe, something they can learn on & will not need to upgrade for our garage purpose. Hopefully no more than $500 for welder & major accessories.

THX again in advance.
m

Thoughts?

http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/tls/1860041718.html (post from July???)

Sycotik Skier
08-28-2010, 10:14 AM
What do you plan on welding? How thick do you want to go? Any experience welding?

pittim
08-28-2010, 10:18 AM
If you're willing to drive a bit, Cleveland has a couple of good deals.

MIG is probably the easiest, stick is going to be the cheapest.

fathersnsons
08-28-2010, 10:23 AM
What do you plan on welding? How thick do you want to go? Any experience welding?

experience almost zero, has done a couple welds with his uncle & Brandon.
How thick & what? Simple thinks at first, reinforcements & additions to trailer, later when they learn more I could see them getting more serous with lifts & such.
Sorry for such a lame answer, but its hard to predict teenagers.

fathersnsons
08-28-2010, 10:25 AM
If you're willing to drive a bit

Yes new / used / close / or drive
if its a good value when considering the travel costs, NO PROBLEM :)
Luckily, I can sit & drive

m

Sycotik Skier
08-28-2010, 10:28 AM
From my experiences welding with gas is easier than flux core. Doing floors and such will be a lot easier with gas than flux core because flux core burns hotter. Is your garage wired for 220? By bumping from a 110 machine up to 220 you'll gain material thickness weldability with a single pass. Personally I'd stick to Miller or lincoln for a welder. Both are quality companies. At work we have 3 lincoln power mig 255's. It overkill for anything you'd probably weld but a very nice machine. A hobart handler 187 is probably the best machine for the job and it's a little over $600. I'd suggest an auto darkening hood for beginners. I feel it's easier to learn to weld with an auto darkening than traditional hood.

fathersnsons
08-28-2010, 10:37 AM
Is your garage wired for 220? By bumping from a 110 machine up to 220 you'll gain material thickness weldability with a single pass. ...

THX "Sycotik..."
Power in the garage is no problem. The previous owner put in an insane line I think there is a 440 ??? SO I can convert to 22o if needed. My father-in-law is an electrician. I have learned allot from him, and when I am not comfortable, he loves to still help out his little girl. (wow that did not sound quite the way I wanted)


A hobart handler 187 is probably the best machine for the job and it's a little over $600
hobart is a fav of many I hear. I saw it has a great customer rating on numerous sites. ex 4.9 out of 5, over 100 opinions. I will put this on the list to chk out, and compare

THX

DMG
08-28-2010, 10:58 AM
I recommend a 220v mig made by Hobart, Miller, or Lincoln.
The autodarkening helmets from harbor freight work well.

limegreentj
08-28-2010, 11:06 AM
that hobart 140 would be plenty for what you would do. i know a lot of people love 220v welders (i do too) but a 110 is nice because its convenient, you can take it anywhere, and my 110 will weld 1/4 inch with flux core in a single pass, it will weld 1/8th inch with mig, and 3/16 with the proper prep (bevel OR pre heat)

Chances are, you are never gonna weld anything thicker than 3/16ths for anything on a vehicle ever...lol. i tell people this all the time, but you can use your own judgement....a frame of a jeep is 1/8th inch thick steel. if you bolt a 1/4inch bumper on a 1/8th inch frame and hit something hard enough, you might as well have them tow it right to the scrap yard.

the only real advantage to a 220v over a 110v when using it on ANYTHING other than industrial applications is the duty cycle, which is how long you can weld before the machine loses power, for instance, my 110v at full power has a 40% duty cycle, meaning i can weld for 4 minutes out of 10. but i have only hit that a few times when i built the ramp for bbnt only because there was a TON of welding involved. i burned over 10lbs of wire on that thing.

limegreentj
08-28-2010, 11:18 AM
this'll getcha started, then all you need to weld MIG is a tank (the one i use is 40cf) i paid 100 bucks for the tank and a fill of co2. co2 is harder to use (less steady arc) but burns hotter and lasts way longer and is way cheaper.

but you can still buy this and use it with flux core wire for everything you'd do except thin sheetmetal (you can still do thin sheet with it, its just tougher)

http://www.tractorsupply.com/welding-metalworking/welders/mig-welding/mig-welders/hobart-handler-140-welder-3812040

jlovbasz3
08-28-2010, 02:26 PM
The price on that Hobart is to high.You can get a new one at Tractor Supply for $479.(i know it has some extras but it's used and thats to much money)I've welded with about every brand welder there is I currently have a Clarke 140en it's a nice little mig but the company went belly up.I'd look into a Lincoln pro mig 140 it's probably nicest 110 welder I've welded with it's smooth welds great and the mig gun is small so you can get into tight places.220 is nice but in most cases it's overkill for automotive work you will be fine with a 110.

jlovbasz3
08-28-2010, 02:31 PM
Maybe call about this one it's a Clarke and is a good price.
http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/tls/1914092427.html

limegreentj
08-28-2010, 02:36 PM
The price on that Hobart is to high.You can get a new one at Tractor Supply for $479.(i know it has some extras but it's used and thats to much money)I've welded with about every brand welder there is I currently have a Clarke 140en it's a nice little mig but the company went belly up.I'd look into a Lincoln pro mig 140 it's probably nicest 110 welder I've welded with it's smooth welds great and the mig gun is small so you can get into tight places.220 is nice but in most cases it's overkill for automotive work you will be fine with a 110.


thats what i have is a clarke, i love it, and ive used lincoln miller hobart linde, from what i understand clarke is rebuilding, also i saw at tractor supply a welder called auto arc, that looks like a clarke and is around the same price...new name maybe? they are made in ohio too, same place the clarke welders were made

DeathBlade556
08-28-2010, 03:11 PM
I have a Lincoln weldpack 100 nice welder for a 110v, I've run probably 100lbs of wire through it.
run 100% co2 in twenty pound beverage bottles good size or a little welder(its lasts about 15lbs of wire) and cost about $15-20 to swap. I've welded 16gauge to 1/2"(multiple passes) with it.

If you can find a flux core welder for a good price search for a MIG conversion kit.
I converted mine from flux to MIG for about $50 (valve/regulator) and another $20 for the 20lb bottle.

limegreentj
08-28-2010, 03:40 PM
you seriously welded half inch with a 110? even with multi passes it probably only penetrated half way.

DeathBlade556
08-28-2010, 04:54 PM
Ya, sure it needed a big bevel but it worked out.

mxg342
08-28-2010, 09:09 PM
you seriously welded half inch with a 110? even with multi passes it probably only penetrated half way.

It's all in weld prep. On very large fabrications (4-6" plate) you can't weld anything in a single pass. Not to mention piping. 4500# special class piping is all over 1" wall (not to mention it isn't typical carbon steel either). They aren't doing it with 110V welders but they're only running 3/32 rod.

I've been around a lot of welders. I have a Lincoln SP135T running a tri-mix gas. 90% Argon, 8% CO2 and 2% oxygen. It will give the hottest weld of any shielding gas. I would recommend a lincoln, miller or hobart. TSC occasionally runs pretty decent sales on the hobart stuff. When I get some cash, I'll have a new 220V miller in the garage. I'm debating the 212 or the 252 right now.


Back on Topic.
Since you're in Harmony, head up 68 to the welding supply place right after the light at hartman road. Talk to Sonny, he'll give you some ideas.

justin'sbig7
08-29-2010, 08:41 AM
i have a miller 212, its overkill for most but as lime said, its about the duty cycle. i also have a blue point 110 mig, its a great little machine and handled 3/16 single pass with the proper technique. i would definitely get a setup with shielding gas and avoid the flux core only machines.

not to hijack, but matt if you want to come up and run some welds on the 212 youre more than welcome.

fathersnsons
08-29-2010, 12:29 PM
Thx, I so again appreciate everyones input & help.

As stated in a recent thread about This Forum Sucks, I noted how I felt otherwise because the foundation of this Forum is made up of a group of great individuals.

After sending out my acknowledgement of my welding ignorance & that I wanted to get my son set up, I received a PM from a popular member who said they had a simple 110 meg sitting around & that if Steven wanted he was more than welcome to it.
When negotiating a price, Steven ended up paying a token amount but out of his own budget.

Steven almost immediately wanted to get it, so he drove the GMC, club cab, for the first time through Butler. (a little white knuckled, he did great. He did ask if I would get through town before letting him take over on the way home. He said he was preferred the trails.)

After dusting the welder off it looks near new. Steven is so pumped. We will head to tractor supply for the safety accessories & down the street to the welding shop & fill up the tank. Get a spool of none flux wire and Steven can start practicing on some scrap pieces.

For a dad who has a real challenge getting out & around, the best part was hearing his son acknowledge, how awe sum this member was & how great all the guys are on the trails all the way home . This worked out better than I had hoped, it will allow him to get his feet wet & learn. Down the road if he needs to weld onto the body or other thin projects. He can upgrade. From my limited experience,welding thin metal is like driving obstacles off-road. Its more, 60% operator, 40% machine?

We are so blessed to have hooked up with a number of you, & am so thankful, from suggestions & info to actually working on our FathersnSons XJ.

Not to sound musshy, but for a bunch of guys who don't mind getting dirty. Who mash their knuckles between events, & test their nerves & the braking point of steel, ya'll have compassionate hearts.

THX PHGoffroad & be on the lookout for: NEWBEE son needs help on UYIOGUIYBYBY HNNUGUPHUnn hUPMI{PPU.[/QUOTE]

ridgerunner97
08-29-2010, 12:49 PM
I know who's welder that was and it is a nice little machine you couldn't have got it off a more helpful guy.

fathersnsons
08-29-2010, 01:19 PM
you couldn't have got it off a more helpful guy.

x2

limegreentj
08-29-2010, 01:28 PM
well! what kinda welder is it?

fathersnsons
08-29-2010, 01:41 PM
what kinda welder is it?


Heck I do not know, it's red. Sorry to be dumb, it's 110v gas mig, the controls are minimal & simple. The brand I did not even pay attention.
I saw what it was used for, & if Steven learns to do that well with it, I'll be thrilled.

tjblair
08-30-2010, 09:57 PM
Thanks for the kind words. And I hope it helps him get it on his way learning to weld.

limegreentj
08-30-2010, 10:14 PM
you da man jeff!

OverkillZJ
08-31-2010, 07:07 AM
The only real decision for the welding you'll do on a Jeep is 110 vs 220. You simply want to go MIG (wire with gas) if you just want to get down to joining pieces of steel together. You can't go wrong with Hobart, lincoln, or Miller. Hobart even uses a Miller gun. Think of Miller as a more expensive version of Lincoln, but one that's still built to last if it's not used in production every day.

Stick is more versitile and cheaper to buy, but much more difficult. I ended up with a Hobart 220 mig about 6 years ago and couldn't be happier with it. It's been used for things I never imagined. 110 is more convenient, but 220 came in very handy when building trusses over axles and things that required welding thicker metal.

EDIT: just caught up on the thread: that'll do!

tjblair
09-11-2010, 12:35 AM
Well lets see some of these bad ass welds.:036: seriously though did he start burning wire yet.

fathersnsons
09-11-2010, 12:05 PM
Honestly he has not started to weld yet. I asked if he was ready to get his supplies etc., & he needed to save a little. But you should see the welder. He scrubbed it in & out, sanded it & painted it. It looked great before, but now it looks nearly new.
I think we will be getting the gas & supplies in the next week or so. THX again.
m

limegreentj
09-11-2010, 12:14 PM
awesome! you got a good kid there man! POST PICS OF THE WELDER!!! LOL!