The true cost of tons

[Mykal]

Im really contemplating putting a set of tons under the XJ. I know nothing is ever cheap and easy any more. Im looking for a dollar amount of what you have in yours.

Lets say I can get F/R 60s for $900 for the sake of argument. Ball joint or king pin.
What am I looking at to rebuild the axles with stock parts on my own.
Will I need any special tools?

What am I looking at to mount it under the XJ?
I have Clayton Radius arms up front but am probably going to upgrade to the Clayton 3 link kit. I have leafs in the rear but the front leaf hangers need attention badly. Id like to upgrade to the Clayton 4 link kit at the same time if I can swing it but I will probably have to wait for that.

I realize the skys the limit and you can dump some serious money into this. Im not looking for that.

[SirFuego]

A wise man once told me that the axle housings themselves are the cheapest part of the build.

I would suggest putting together a spreadsheet of a "budget build" and not forget to include steering, new u-joints, wheels, tires, and beadlocks (if you want to run really low pressures). The cost can vary significantly depending on what you can find used or choose to not upgrade.

What tire size are you looking to run?

You might want to look into a 14B or 70U for the rear. Both have stronger internals than the D60 and also come with about 1.5" shafts -- which is what most D60 folks end up upgrading to. 14B's are a dime a dozen (so they are cheap), but the 70U has better ground clearance (you sacrifice about 3/8" over a stock 60) and is supposedly a bit lighter than the 14B. That said, the 14B and 70 can be shaved to about the same ground clearance depending how far you go with the shave, so that should be taken into consideration, since a (desirable) 70U is probably going to be a higher intial cost than a 14B.

IMO, if you are set on a 60 rear, try to find a 60U (smooth bottom) with the D70 hub. I was offered one of these for $200, but I found a 70U for cheaper than it would have cost me to upgrade that axle to 35 spline.

[Mykal]

Im actually set on a 14b rear already.

Id like to run 37's initially. Im not sure if I would go bigger or not.

What is the largest tire a 60/14b can handle in stock form with a locker or spool reliably.

[highlandercj-7]

Im actually set on a 14b rear already.

Id like to run 37's initially. Im not sure if I would go bigger or not.

What is the largest tire a 60/14b can handle in stock form with a locker or spool reliably.

I'd say 44's. I plan on running 42's on my 60-14B combo. If you reallly want to do it, I'd look for a set of CUCV axles. 456's out the box rear detroit and normally a LS Front. You would be fine with them and 37's. You wouldn't have to gear or lock them so you'd save cash. Next run H-1 wheels and tires you can get them cheap and they will suck up some width. Put a Dana 300 t case in it and your off and running. Figure on spending $3k and your probally not going to be disappointed. You would probally be better off putting the stuff into a YJ though as it would be easier and cheaper. Barry has the one he was selling for sale cheap too.

[Super Scout]

My view has always been when it comes to restoring cars figure out what you think it will cost than double it. Don't know how well that will relate but what the hell.

[Mykal]

Im not opposed to running leafs in the back. I think if I rework the front spring hangers the leafs would be fine. The biggest things I want to accomplish in the rear is the stretch. Keeping the leafs in the back would definately save me some money.

I cant fit the family in a YJ. I need to stick with the XJ.

I was going to budget 3k to get tons under it and driving. I found a front 60 in Uniontown on Ebay (http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/FORD-DANA-60-FRONT-AXLE-REBUILT-HIGH-PINION-ROCKCRAWLER-/190486199895?pt=Motors_Car_Truck_Parts_Accessories&hash=item2c59dcbe57). Its listed as a 1993 Ford HP kingpin. The picture shows kingpins. I though after 91 they were all ball joints though. Am I wrong?

[Mykal]

Steve, I dont even know where to start to figure out what Ill need other then complete axles. Im a total newb.

[OverkillZJ]

Depends on how built you want to go... some 60's aren't that strong except for the center section. Best bet is to find a 1978 ford front 60 - it'll have 35 spline inner shafts that don't "neck down" - I found a 79 and the inner shafts were worthless because they neck down so much. Also the outers are only 30 spline until upgraded... So really to do a strong 60 build you're looking at...

Housing
inner and outer 35 spline shafts
gears
locker
hubs or drive flanges/slugs
brace or upgrade the knuckles that are prone to breaking at the top
Your left nut and about 30 years worth of beer money, and you're done!
If you're going to keep wheeling, you could look at it how I did, a one time investment you'll move from rig to rig...

There's a "60 bible" on Pirate4x4 which helps a ton. It's like 30 pages but I read through it twice while planning my build. I spent thousands, but I also sat there bouncing off the rev limiter and never had an issue...

Most of us end up building a 14bolt or 70 rear - comes out cheaper and as strong as a 60 rear considering stock 60 rears are 30 "small" splines. 14b rears are 30 splines but huge shafts / splines. 70u like SirFuego mentioned is the shiznit if you can find it.

[ezman]

http://www.rwkhaussupply.com/magento/ best price on alot of axle related things, also a sponsor on naxja.
http://www.ballisticfabrication.com/Axle-Trusses_c_173.html
http://www.partsmike.com/store/store.php?crn=218
http://www.polyperformance.com/shop/D60-Front-End-Kit-p-16922.html
http://solidaxle.com/ProductCart/pc/viewCategories.asp
http://www.autozone.com



d60 front
detroit 614.94
master install kit 115.00
4.56 gears 273.87 (to match the 14b, given you found one from a cucv)
truss 149.00
high steer arms 286.99
7/8 / 3/4 rod ends 135.96 (4 x 33.99ea)
misalignment spacers 71.92 (8 x 8.99ea) just for steering
kingpin rebuild kit 139.95
u joints 79.90 (2 x 39.95ea)
diff cover 120.00
spindle nut wrench 29.95
hub wrench 25.95
rotors 99.98 (2 x 49.99)
brake pads 11.99 (super cheapo)
forged hubs (pair) 440.00
drive flange kit 200.00
spindle bearing kit 15.00
spindles 320.00
spring/lca mount kit 110.00


for a grand total of a ball park of $3240.40

oh and this is without shipping or any labor you may need such as gear install so you could probably add another $500+ for that stuff too...

this is by no means and end all be all list.... i was just bored and did a quick search for some things that i know you will probably need... there is probably more i'm missing.

just for shits and gigs...

[Mykal]

Like I said, I dont want to build it up. I want to stick them (D60/14b) under it stock. I dont have the cash for a baller build.

The only 60 bible Ive found is BillaVistas but its only two pages long. Ive read it many times and am currently reading it again.

[Mykal]

Thanks EZ. I appreciate that a lot.

[SirFuego]

d60 front
detroit 614.94
master install kit 115.00
4.56 gears 273.87 (to match the 14b, given you found one from a cucv)
truss 149.00
high steer arms 286.99
7/8 / 3/4 rod ends 135.96 (4 x 33.99ea)
misalignment spacers 71.92 (8 x 8.99ea) just for steering
kingpin rebuild kit 139.95
u joints 79.90 (2 x 39.95ea)
diff cover 120.00
spindle nut wrench 29.95
hub wrench 25.95
rotors 99.98 (2 x 49.99)
brake pads 11.99 (super cheapo)
forged hubs (pair) 440.00
drive flange kit 200.00
spindle bearing kit 15.00
spindles 320.00
spring/lca mount kit 110.00


for a grand total of a ball park of $3240.40

oh and this is without shipping or any labor you may need such as gear install so you could probably add another $500+ for that stuff too...

That's a pretty good list. I didn't calculate the numbers, but does that include the cost of the housing? A master install kit is probably going to be closer to $200 these days (if not, where can you find one that cheap? And does it come with Koyo or Timken bearings?) May want to buy new brake hoses, too.

Instead of the Detroit, you could Lincoln lock it though for the cost of welding wire and some time -- or there are also spools you can get for about $150. You should be able to use the stock hubs for now, too.

You don't NEED to go to hi-steer, but it's probably just going to be easier to make it hi-steer right now and be done with it. That's the thing with 1 ton builds. There are a lot of "might as well" upgrades that will make future upgrades easier -- and this is one of them.

Also, the spring/lca/uca mounts are probably going to be closer to $400-$450 if he goes with a TnT truss or Clayton's hi-clearance kit (since he's a "total newb" I'm guessing he's going to go for a bracket kit and not try to piece all the tabs together). On that note, the reason the 78-79 HP60's are the most desireable is because of the length of the driver's tube. Later model HP60's require some additional fabwork and to get them to work. If you are going to get someone else to do the fabwork, it'll probably be cheaper to just find a 78-79 HP60.

For the rear, a disk brake conversion (if you want to) is going to be about $250 -- $50 for the caliper bracket, and about $200 for the calipers/rotors/pads. Of course add in the cost of a new R&P, master install kit, and a locker if you are re-gearing.

If you don't have one already, I would suggest buying a Red Star membership at Pirate. The $20 membership cost will quickly be offset by the savings of parts and shipping through Pirate vendors.

THis is the plan for my build:

Wheels/Tires:
37" tires
17" wheels (these will be easier to fit)
Stauns (if they ever restart their US operations)/Inner Air Locks
Rock Rings

Front: 79 HP60
5.13 gears
Master install kit
ARB or Detroit
Solid knuckles/hi-steer arm (running a full hydro setup, so I'm just going to spend the coin on bling knuckles now and not worry about them breaking)
Kingpin rebuild (if necessary, but I'm guessing it will be)
New bearings
Rotors/pads
Calipers (if the current ones aren't functional)
Stock axles/hubs (for now, 35 spline will probably be the first upgrade I make, but this is definitely subject to change)
Clayton's hi-clearance brackets
Some sort of diff armor

Rear: 70U
5.13 gears
Master install kit
ARB (keep in mind that the rear axle usually is a bigger player in your turning radius than your front)
Disc brake conversion
Stock 35 spline axles
Stock hubs
Some sort of diff armor

[OverkillZJ]

Like I said, I dont want to build it up. I want to stick them (D60/14b) under it stock. I dont have the cash for a baller build.

The only 60 bible Ive found is BillaVistas but its only two pages long. Ive read it many times and am currently reading it again.

Printed it's a lot more than 2 pages! That's the one.

Then for now I'd go 1978 HP60 front and a 14 bolt rear. That's the strongest you're going to go in stock form, unless something's changed in the 4 years since my research.

[Mykal]

Instead of the Detroit, you could Lincoln lock it though for the cost of welding wire and some time -- or there are also spools you can get for about $150. You should be able to use the stock hubs for now, too.

You don't NEED to go to hi-steer, but it's probably just going to be easier to make it hi-steer right now and be done with it. That's the thing with 1 ton builds. There are a lot of "might as well" upgrades that will make future upgrades easier -- and this is one of them.

Also, the spring/lca/uca mounts are probably going to be closer to $400-$450 if he goes with a TnT truss or Clayton's hi-clearance kit (since he's a "total newb" I'm guessing he's going to go for a bracket kit and not try to piece all the tabs together). On that note, the reason the 78-79 HP60's are the most desireable is because of the length of the driver's tube. Later model HP60's require some additional fabwork and to get them to work. If you are going to get someone else to do the fabwork, it'll probably be cheaper to just find a 78-79 HP60.

For the rear, a disk brake conversion (if you want to) is going to be about $250 -- $50 for the caliper bracket, and about $200 for the calipers/rotors/pads. Of course add in the cost of a new R&P, master install kit, and a locker if you are re-gearing.

If you don't have one already, I would suggest buying a Red Star membership at Pirate. The $20 membership cost will quickly be offset by the savings of parts and shipping through Pirate vendors.

Driving it on the street as much as I do Im trying to stay away from lincoln locking it.

I would probably do hi-steer if I can afford it.

I figured I would try to piece the brackets together. I was thinking between Ruffstuff, Poly, Ballistic, etc, it wouldnt be hard to do that. Im not afraid of a little work and Id like to fab everything myself then have someone weld it all on for me.

For the cost of the rear disc conversion I figured I would do that off that bat as well.

Im a red star on Pirate. Have been for awhile. Its definately already paid for its self.

[CESCO]

I'd say 44's. .

that's funny.

depending on how hard of trails you want to wheel would determine the cost to beef it up. I am breaking chromo 35 spline with 40's and wheel with guys that break them with 37's.. I would say the $3k price would be close for the axle but like the others said you still need to look into everything attached to them to make it go down the road

[joe_and_jeep]

For 37s? Run HP44 and 9in. I'm running 60s and 40s but anything smaller than 40s and I'd run 44/9. Also have to remember how heavy the 60s are and they will destroy your XJ very quickly so add in the cost of beefing up your uni body.

If you want a cheap 60 get a SuperDuty 60. The inner shafts have no neck down. Sell the factory knuckles, tie rod, stub shafts, unit bearings on Ebay for more than what you payed for the whole (ask me how I know this is possible) axle. Buy 93ish ball joint 60 knuckles, D50 hubs/spindles (cheaper at the junkyard but identical to 60) and stub shafts. That will get rid of the unit bearing metric front end. Don't be afraid to weld the drivers side link to the cast. Ballistic Fab sells the brackets.

[OverkillZJ]

By the time you build a 44 to be as strong as a stock 60, you've spent a lot of money. The only truly stronger part is the ring gear, and I still managed to blow 2 (spicer) gears up in a 44 rear, on 35" MTR's. MyKal drives like I do - it will die.

[Mykal]

Im not looking for the cost to beef them up. I would be out of my mind to pay anywhere near 3k for a stock d60. 3k should cover putting them under the XJ and have it driving on them.
Ive already begun beefing up the frame rails. Im not concerned with that. Like I said, if I address the spring hangers I think they will be better off.
I dont want to be stuck at 37s and limited by the 44/9. If Im going to spend the money I want to do it once and have something I can upgrade over time.

[joe_and_jeep]

By the time you build a 44 to be as strong as a stock 60, you've spent a lot of money. The only truly stronger part is the ring gear, and I still managed to blow 2 (spicer) gears up in a 44 rear, on 35" MTR's. MyKal drives like I do - it will die.

You'll never build a 44 to hold a candle to a 60. No doubt, but for 37s it'll be fine up front. I wouldn't run one in the rear. 38s would be the biggest I'd run on the 44/9 combo. 60s for 39 or bigger.

[ezman]

yeah that lil price sheet was just for the front... and that was just reusing the stock axles, toss on another $500+ for some 35spline outers chromo etc...

the cost of the master install kit was from the link i tossed up from rwk haus... not sure if it was the right one or not, it was a quick search. however they have some damn good prices for alot of the things i'll need for my hp44/9in swap


the whole cost of everything is why i don't want to go tons... just too expensive... 37's are good for me so that's what i'm going to do...

on bronco graveyard you can buy a 35spl center section w/ gears and detroit for a 9in for like 1400... that's gonna be pretty beefy and cost far less than trying to build up some tons...

when i was pricing everything out it's gonna be under 5k for the pretty beefy built hp44/9in axles
that's with selectable lockers and all that jazz...

you're going to be at almost 4k just for the front d60 built...

[justin'sbig7]

if you find some axles already geared to a tolerable ratio, 3K should get ya. i have no idea what i dumped into mine, but there was 6k cash i had saved that dissapeared (i did a few other things as well and full hydro)

i am running 40" stickys, locked on stock necked down 35 spline shafts and havent had an issue. granted theres only a few runs on it, but i have beaten on it with the v8 to where i was really expecting a snap. (prolly break it next time out lol) so, its really hit or miss i guess.

watch pirate for sale forums. i got one of my arb's (NIB) and a few other things dirt cheap over there, lots of abandoned projects, economy crunch sales etc... watch for already built axles too, i know theres been some d60's geared and arb'd with good shafts for under 3k a pair. also the pirate vendors will HOOK YOU UP big time! i saved boatloads of cash this way.

[justin'sbig7]

yeah that lil price sheet was just for the front... and that was just reusing the stock axles, toss on another $500+ for some 35spline outers chromo etc...

the cost of the master install kit was from the link i tossed up from rwk haus... not sure if it was the right one or not, it was a quick search. however they have some damn good prices for alot of the things i'll need for my hp44/9in swap


the whole cost of everything is why i don't want to go tons... just too expensive... 37's are good for me so that's what i'm going to do...

on bronco graveyard you can buy a 35spl center section w/ gears and detroit for a 9in for like 1400... that's gonna be pretty beefy and cost far less than trying to build up some tons...

when i was pricing everything out it's gonna be under 5k for the pretty beefy built hp44/9in axles
that's with selectable lockers and all that jazz...

you're going to be at almost 4k just for the front d60 built...

5k sucks to spend on 44s to find out you want tons. not to mention its tough finding someone to buy the built 44's for even remotely decent. they all want 60's, not being harsh, i just went through this about 8 months ago.

[joe_and_jeep]

for $6k I'd buy Mogs...

[Mykal]

for $6k I'd buy Mogs...

You are full of useful related information huh?

[justin'sbig7]

for $6k I'd buy Mogs...


yeah, i am starting to thing i got about 4k into my 60's

1100 axles with gears new front rotors and calipers, around 150 in bearings, about the same in shims etc. (150), 80 in kingpin kits. 125 in rear brakes calipers rotors pads, rear arb was 650, front was 869, 300 for spare shafts, hi steer arms, knuckles. total of $3424 $1200 for full hydro, probably 300 in brackets u bolts shackles etc. new springs were $400, spent 300 on shocks oh, yeah, the double beadlocks and stickies were in the 6k too i guess i did a lot more than an axle swap :D

[13below0]

Skip a 60 rear, hell skip the 14B and get a sterling 10.5 or 10.25. Full float, and dirt cheap, better clearance. You can usually pick them up for $100ish

[dan58]

Save money in the long run. Sell the XJ as it is. Buy a rig that's already finished. You'll save a pile of money and time. Cruise PBB for a few weeks and get the deal you want.

[Dick.Breakey]

Save money in the long run. Sell the XJ as it is. Buy a rig that's already finished. You'll save a pile of money and time. Cruise PBB for a few weeks and get the deal you want.

I was waiting for this haha. As well as I was waiting for someone to say buy a tj or something. Though some people enjoy the venture and like to do shit themselves and learn along the way. Even if it costs more the first time around, its the knowledge thats important.

My only request, if it matters, is you post up a build thread. No matter what axle combo you choose.

[justin'sbig7]

the main topic here, is budget 60's and the cost involved. lets steer this back on track. theres an empty 79 ford d6 front housing on cl for $300 right now mykal, may be a good start... i wish i had an extra 300 layin around lol

[dan58]

the main topic here, is budget 60's and the cost involved. lets steer this back on track. theres an empty 79 ford d6 front housing on cl for $300 right now mykal, may be a good start... i wish i had an extra 300 layin around lol

There simply is no cheap way to do a 60 correctly, especially Ford. You HAVE to factor in another $500 for the knuckles that you will be buying (not if you'll be buying). Even if you get a deal on a 60, it will need bearings, seals, brakes, etc. That's all costs just to get the thing under the truck. You can limp along on it with 4.10s for a while, but that will get old.

[joe_and_jeep]

There simply is no cheap way to do a 60 correctly, especially Ford. You HAVE to factor in another $500 for the knuckles that you will be buying (not if you'll be buying). Even if you get a deal on a 60, it will need bearings, seals, brakes, etc. That's all costs just to get the thing under the truck. You can limp along on it with 4.10s for a while, but that will get old.

Ford kingpin 60 knuckles will break. There is a few companies on Pirate that sell gusset kits.

And I did tell you how to build a cheap 60. I been rocking my $100 D60 for the last year on 40s. And I could duplicate my 60 easily for under $250. Everything on my front axle was purchased at junkyards, no special tricks except for how I got my 35spl cromo outers. But I'm still running the 30spliners till they break.

[ridgerunner97]

Ya don't need the knuckles right off the bat you can gusset em like you mentioned Joe n Jeep, and 4.10s are an upgrade from where he's at now. Hell with 37s or so it should be the same as his 33s and 3.55s right now or at least close. I agree, plan for the worst though, new calipers, new install kit, balljoints or Kingpin rebuild kit, its going to add up fast but there is a cheap route to get it on tons and still do it right in the long run. You can upgrade as you go just as you want. Alot of the uprade stuff is things you don't have now so your really not losing anything keepin it without hysteer to begin with etc. etc. Just think it out long and hard before you start.

[ezman]

you aren't being harsh at all man...

i'm just guessing there but that would be for a 35spl 9in with disc brakes arb and 4.88
hp44 arb, rcv shafts, drive slugs, high steer, and all the steering heims or tre's plus track bar and brackets...

if i go with detroits i'll be able to save a few hundred bucks...

i'm just a big proponent of not going tons... that's what everyone wants, and i don't feel the terrain i wheel in, nor my wheeling style would need 1 ton axles...

9in
complete axle $75
4340 chromo 35spl axles $352
35spl 3rd member w/ detroit and 4.88 $1349
pinion yoke $150
disc brakes from jy $200 (guestimate)
bearing kit $65

total ~$2200

hp44
housing $75 (hopefully it's still there)
rcv shafts with 30spl drive slugs $1485
arb $775
compressor/misc fittings/ hose $225
gears $150
master install $95
axle brackets $150
misc shit i don't feel like looking up $500

total $3455
add gear install $3600


for both $5800

ouch! wasn't expecting that... i may be able to shave a few hundo off by piecing some things together as opposed to kits, but that will be a pretty stout axle combo for 37's

[justin'sbig7]

Ford kingpin 60 knuckles will break. There is a few companies on Pirate that sell gusset kits.

And I did tell you how to build a cheap 60. I been rocking my $100 D60 for the last year on 40s. And I could duplicate my 60 easily for under $250. Everything on my front axle was purchased at junkyards, no special tricks except for how I got my 35spl cromo outers. But I'm still running the 30spliners till they break.

joe, what d60 do you have? i thought it was a ford, if it is it is 35 spline inners unless it was changed

[dan58]

Ford kingpin 60 knuckles will break. There is a few companies on Pirate that sell gusset kits.

Yep. They all break at some point. Krod did it the right way. He sold his while they were still worth something, and it make a dandy downpayment on his Reids. The gusset kits are out there as well, but you aren't all that far ahead if you consider the price of the gussets compared to what Krod did. And the Reids give you a 5th hole for hi steer arms.

[Mykal]

Skip a 60 rear, hell skip the 14B and get a sterling 10.5 or 10.25. Full float, and dirt cheap, better clearance. You can usually pick them up for $100ish

6 of one, half dozen of the other. Right?


Save money in the long run. Sell the XJ as it is. Buy a rig that's already finished. You'll save a pile of money and time. Cruise PBB for a few weeks and get the deal you want.

I truly thought about parting the XJ out and taking my money and doing that. Then I thought about all the problems Id be getting that I dont know anything about. I know my XJ and it runs really well and is mechanically reliable. On top of that, I built it. I didnt buy it and it functions great. I like that.


My only request, if it matters, is you post up a build thread. No matter what axle combo you choose.

I will, they are always good for a laugh since I usually do them different since I dont have a large budget and fancy tools in a big shop. haha


the main topic here, is budget 60's and the cost involved. lets steer this back on track. theres an empty 79 ford d6 front housing on cl for $300 right now mykal, may be a good start... i wish i had an extra 300 layin around lol

Thanks. I seen that housing and thought it would be a good start. I emailed the guy. Waiting to hear back. Then I could just source parts that I need.


There simply is no cheap way to do a 60 correctly, especially Ford. You HAVE to factor in another $500 for the knuckles that you will be buying (not if you'll be buying). Even if you get a deal on a 60, it will need bearings, seals, brakes, etc. That's all costs just to get the thing under the truck. You can limp along on it with 4.10s for a while, but that will get old.

Im not looking to build one for cheap. Im trying to research the cost of getting them under the XJ completely. Ill worry about building them as I break them. I dont need a bling blang build right off the bat. I understand that at some point Ill need to upgrade knuckles. I can deal with that when they break.
I understand they will more then likely need seals, bearings, brakes, etc. In a perfect world they would be done before its ever installed. If it holds fluid and everything spins freely Ill do it as time allows after they are under it. Brakes will be done from the start though. Im not worried about running on 4:10s for a while. Ive been geared with 3:55s for two years now on 33's. I own a 2.5 YJ. I can deal with going slow for a while.

I knew this would turn into a "you need to do this, you need to do that" thread. That would be great if I had the funds. I dont. I dont want to put any more money into the D30. I dont think a D44 is a good option for me in any way. So I need to figure out how to get tons under it. If I can stay under $3500 and do that I will be extremely happy.

Thanks for all the opinions so far. I probably appreciate them more then you know.

[justin'sbig7]

i'm just a big proponent of not going tons... that's what everyone wants, and i don't feel the terrain i wheel in, nor my wheeling style would need 1 ton axles...



i used to be the same way, i had a 44 front built with 4340 chromos, arb 4.88's etc. rear wasnt as built but i had about 3600 in the set. used to beat the snot out of it on 36" iroks and heard how it was gonna break i followed a lot of people full width and tons on 42"s without issue. i got sick of replacing upper ball joints from the hi steer and wondering when it was gonna break as it became inevitable with what i wanted to do. when i sold them, they sat for sale for about 8 months and i finally let them go to a guy who drove up from louisiana to pick them up for $1500. 5800 builds a sick set of 60's (or at least a front 60 and the above mentioned 9 in.)and you no longer have ball joints

also, after running a detroit, ill never run one again. ill either lincoln lock or save for arbs.

[justin'sbig7]

If I can stay under $3500 and do that I will be extremely happy.

Thanks for all the opinions so far. I probably appreciate them more then you know.

if $3500 is your budget, you dont need to think twice about starting it. pull the trigger. if you need any help with anything, let me know. and watch pirate i saved probably a grand just from the deals there

[ezman]

that is a valid arguement... it wouldn't be to hard to get the 9in axles redrilled for 8x6.5....

i think i'm still going to go with the hp44 just for the ground clearence... i'm planning an lcg build on the xj...

hmm luckily i'm only in the planning stages and haven't spent any money really...

well mykal it looks like to build a stout 1/2 ton front axle you'll spend about the same as you would to build a rolling 1 ton axle.

just thought i'd get this back on topic.... haahaha...

[justin'sbig7]

that is a valid arguement... it wouldn't be to hard to get the 9in axles redrilled for 8x6.5....

i think i'm still going to go with the hp44 just for the ground clearence... i'm planning an lcg build on the xj...

hmm luckily i'm only in the planning stages and haven't spent any money really...

well mykal it looks like to build a stout 1/2 ton front axle you'll spend about the same as you would to build a rolling 1 ton axle.

just thought i'd get this back on topic.... haahaha...


yeah, sorry for the hijack here mykal... but anywho, CESCO was building hybrid 9" centers with FF 14b tubes/spindles/hubs. would be a cool route to go. there was another thread here a while back comparing actual differential to ground measurements and the difference between a 44 and 60 was less than what everyone seems to say. i also caution on running ball joints. my trail only rig was going through about 1 set a year, and i dont get out wheelin near what i would like. weight wise, the 60 is also not significantly heavier than a 44 like most say.

[SirFuego]

Yeah I'm planning to sell my Ford knuckles. I see that they have plating kits for the Ford knuckles, but I've never heard of any of the big 3 aftermarket knuckles (Reid, Crane, Solid) breaking, so having a "bolt in" upgrade seemed worth the convenience. From what I've seen, the Ford knuckles mostly tend to fail in hi-steer full hydro applications.

I'm going with the Solid knuckles (unless I find a good deal on Crane or Reid) because they are the cheapest -- plus I like the idea of the keyway (even though some folks call it "snake oil") and the 6th bolt. But again, you usually hear about people ripping off properly maintained hi-steer arms from the knuckles, so it doesn't really seem to matter. Although the Solid hi-steer arms are $300, so that may cancel out the savings of the knuckles themselves.

[dan58]

$3500 gets you a ready to go 60 with chromos and likely the brackets ready to go.

[dan58]

Yeah I'm planning to sell my Ford knuckles. I see that they have plating kits for the Ford knuckles, but I've never heard of any of the big 3 aftermarket knuckles (Reid, Crane, Solid) breaking, so having a "bolt in" upgrade seemed worth the convenience. From what I've seen, the Ford knuckles mostly tend to fail in hi-steer full hydro applications.

I'm going with the Solid knuckles (unless I find a good deal on Crane or Reid) because they are the cheapest -- plus I like the idea of the keyway (even though some folks call it "snake oil") and the 6th bolt. But again, you don't hear about people ripping off hi-steer arms form the knuckles, so it doesn't really seem to matter. Although the Solid hi-steer arms are $300, so that may cancel out the savings of the knuckles themselves.

How much cheaper are those Solids when you factor in the 300 for the keyway thing? Reid has never had a broken knuckle. The keyway is just a way for them to make you spend a whole lot of dough on their HS arm.

[Mykal]

Maybe I didnt communicate well enough. I want a D60/D60 or a D60/14B under the XJ and driveable with a budget of $3500 and doing it myself. The way Im reading the replies is that I can put only a front 60 under it for that money.

[justin'sbig7]

Maybe I didnt communicate well enough. I want a D60/D60 or a D60/14B under the XJ and driveable with a budget of $3500 and doing it myself. The way Im reading the replies is that I can put only a front 60 under it for that money.

nope, mine with arbs fr&r (no chromos but 2 sets of shafts) 5.13 gears kits etc. was about 3400. if you only did one arb, or skipped the arb's for now, or got a set with 410s that dont need regeared you're gonna have less into them

if the guy from cl gets back to ya, i have a lot of leftover parts, hubs, knucks sindles, etc. i can hook ya up to help get ya running. i think i have two good rotors, two good calipers and brackets too.

[ridgerunner97]

You can do both, keep drums on the rear, don't get crazy and all high falooting with the front. I'd weld the 14b and keep the front open for now, gets you in business, every penny now is another dollar to build them up right down the road. I understand you just want to get it mobile again and a foundation under it to upgrade as you go. Kinda off topic, but do you want that chart of leaf springs I sent Steve so you can figure your stretch out in the time being?

[Mykal]

nope, mine with arbs fr&r (no chromos but 2 sets of shafts) 5.13 gears kits etc. was about 3400. if you only did one arb, or skipped the arb's for now, or got a set with 410s that dont need regeared you're gonna have less into them

if the guy from cl gets back to ya, i have a lot of leftover parts, hubs, knucks sindles, etc. i can hook ya up to help get ya running. i think i have two good rotors, two good calipers and brackets too.

Thank you. I will be in touch if he does.


You can do both, keep drums on the rear, don't get crazy and all high falooting with the front. I'd weld the 14b and keep the front open for now, gets you in business, every penny now is another dollar to build them up right down the road. I understand you just want to get it mobile again and a foundation under it to upgrade as you go. Kinda off topic, but do you want that chart of leaf springs I sent Steve so you can figure your stretch out in the time being?

Im not lincoln locking anything. Ill run open/open if I need to. I figure that any 14b or D60 will need new brakes. Id rather spend the $200 to get new discs then spend $200 to rebuild drums.
No, I dont need the chart. Ive had it saved sine I cut the XJ up. Thanks though.

[highlandercj-7]

You are full of useful related information huh?

Don't be a smart a$$ to Joe Mykal, read above he gave you useful input:


For 37s? Run HP44 and 9in. I'm running 60s and 40s but anything smaller than 40s and I'd run 44/9. Also have to remember how heavy the 60s are and they will destroy your XJ very quickly so add in the cost of beefing up your uni body.

If you want a cheap 60 get a SuperDuty 60. The inner shafts have no neck down. Sell the factory knuckles, tie rod, stub shafts, unit bearings on Ebay for more than what you payed for the whole (ask me how I know this is possible) axle. Buy 93ish ball joint 60 knuckles, D50 hubs/spindles (cheaper at the junkyard but identical to 60) and stub shafts. That will get rid of the unit bearing metric front end. Don't be afraid to weld the drivers side link to the cast. Ballistic Fab sells the brackets.

[justin'sbig7]

the disc brackets are pretty cheap. i think $40 or so? definitely less than $200. it is definitely doable especially if you get a set with 410s already set to go.

[Mykal]

Don't be a smart a$$ to Joe Mykal, read above he gave you useful input:

Yeah, the second part of that post was good info. I agree. The comment was directed at the post I quoted.


the disc brackets are pretty cheap. i think $40 or so? doing rear discs is not that pricey at this point. but it is definitely doable especially if you get a set with 410s already set to go.

Agreed.

[justin'sbig7]

Don't be a smart a$$ to Joe Mykal, read above he gave you useful input:


For 37s? Run HP44 and 9in. I'm running 60s and 40s but anything smaller than 40s and I'd run 44/9. Also have to remember how heavy the 60s are and they will destroy your XJ very quickly so add in the cost of beefing up your uni body.


they are only 50lb. heavier than a fully dressed d44 (my 44 scaled at 450 lb when i checked for shipping and from the 60 bible

Weight, fully dressed single wheel front Ford RC 60 complete, locking hub to hub 460-480lbs )

[SirFuego]

the disc brackets are pretty cheap. i think $40 or so? definitely less than $200. it is definitely doable especially if you get a set with 410s already set to go.
Disk Brake Adapters (~$50 thru RuffStuff)
Calipers x2 ($20 each + $20 core charge each = $80)
Rotors x2 ($42 each = $84)
Rear brake hose ($45)

$259 total for the conversion (I don't know if the calipers I found on advance's website were loaded or not, so add $18 for brake pads if not.)

Prices are based on '75 Chevy K20 parts since I believe those are the ones most people use for disk brakes in the rear (that's at least what the RuffStuff brackets are made for).

Do the center of the rotors need bored out for a 14 bolt? I know they do for a 70...

[Mykal]

I dont think they do but I cant remember what Ive read since Ive read so much.
When I order anything through Advance I google coupon codes. I usually end up saving $50-$75 on my orders then pick them up at the store so I should be able to save a good bit.

[justin'sbig7]

yeah, i had a bunch of calipers here and didnt have to pay for the core charge. and i found cheaper rotors too... i think i paid 35 ea. and i definitely found cheaper brake hoses, i am a cheapass and wouldnt pay 45 for them lol! iirc i paid 12 each for the hoses

[ezman]

damn... actually looking at prices of things total makes me kind of cringe and only want to stay stock...

eh... ef it... it's only money... they print more everyday right? hahaha....

[justin'sbig7]

more now than ever! :D

[SirFuego]

Looks like you can get 25% off brake stuff at Advance using promo code BRAKE25. Though it looks like it only gets applied to your most expensive part in your order, so you may need to be annoying and make a bunch of singular orders :-D

EDIT: I didn't shop around for cheaper prices yet, either. I just went to Advance's website to get ballpark numbers. I'd prefer to overbudget when planning the build anyways. Especially since I plan to pay for everything in cash, so I don't want to charge anything (unless it's for an online order I pay off right away). I just took the brake hose price from Clayton's website.

[Super Scout]

This thread is depressing me lol I was thinking I could get tons under the Scout for around 2 grand. Damn Mykal killing the dream lol.

[justin'sbig7]

if you are patient and wait for the right deal to come along, it can be done

[Krod]

Figure very close to $800 to rebuild the front 60 with new bearings, brakes, kingpins, and seals.

A complete 14B can be had for under $150 all day long with 4.10 gears and decent drum brakes. Discs are cheap to upgrade to. The sterling rears are even cheaper and are beef.

PM me if you're interested in a 78/79 HP Ford D60. I know where there is one complete hub to hub, stock, and VERY clean for $800. Wish I had another rig to build or it would already be in my garage. I paid that much for a complete 79 that needed rebuilt...

So for a minimum "tons" setup with no extra fat, you're looking at the following:



$800 -- DANA 60 HP Ford Front axle

$200 -- DANA 60 Master install kit (optional)

$300 -- DANA 60 Gears to match the rear (optional)
$100 -- DANA 60 U-joints (spicer)

$800 -- Rebuild budget for DANA 60 front (brakes/bearings/seals/kingpins)

$150 -- Chevy corporate 14B or Sterling 10.25 4.10 ratio

$300 -- Disc Brakes and studs for the 14B
$100 -- 14B Hub Bearings/seals

$200 -- crossover steering

$100 -- Brackets / Materials

$3050 TOTAL


Now remember, you also need wheels and tires that will fit these axles and actually work off-road (37"+ IMHO) with a 1-ton axle setup. So add in ~ $600 - $1000. Don't forget brake lines and all that etc... It adds up, but is DEFINITELY possible to do on a "budget". My only personal comment on this type of build is that you're not really benefiting from the beef of 1-ton axles if you're just bolting them in 100% stock (no lockers/gears/hi-steer/shafts etc...)

Dan also made the point that he knows I hate to admit, but he's right. If you're doing the Ford 60, get upgraded knuckles in some form. Sell the stockers and use that $$$ to start your knuckle fund. I was able to get rid of mine for ~$220 for the pair, that were freshly blasted and painted.

Good luck. :icon_pidu:

[Krod]

they are only 50lb. heavier than a fully dressed d44 (my 44 scaled at 450 lb when i checked for shipping and from the 60 bible

Weight, fully dressed single wheel front Ford RC 60 complete, locking hub to hub 460-480lbs )

This is another thing I want to clear up whenever I hear it. Chris has a 70's Ford 44 with welded wedges, and the assembled STOCK housing/shafts/gears etc.. weighs as much as my front 60. It has 1/2" tubes and that does not help. Don't fall into that "44's are lighter and wont rip your unibody apart" bullshit... The only reason there will be less weight on his build is that he's running a lighter tire/wheel combo on that axle set.

[joe_and_jeep]

joe, what d60 do you have? i thought it was a ford, if it is it is 35 spline inners unless it was changed


Sorry, yea its a Ford and I am still running the 30spline OUTERS... My bad.

SuperDuty inner compared to a 44 Shaft - No neck down, the reason why I didnt buy cromo inners.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v384/joe_and_jeep/cherokee/IMG00411.jpg

[MemorEsto]

$1800 for Front and Rear 60's with brand new 17" Rims and 37" IROCS......

http://www.eriejeeppeople.com/ejpforums/index.php?showtopic=13207

[Mykal]

Thank you for posting that. Ive already talked to him and will be going that route unless something shows up closer.

[James 7n7]

If you decide to go with the 14b, I've got one and I've got a Ruff Stuff disc brake conversion for it too. I'll make you a good deal on the pair if your interested.

[highlandercj-7]

Or you could just buy buzzinhalfdozens rocks ;) cheaper than tons.

[Mykal]

thoughts.

http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eBayISAPI.dll?ViewItem&item=190486199895&ssPageName=STRK:MEWAX:IT



Up for sale is my 1993 king pin high pinion dana 60 front axle. This axle has been torn down,inspected, refinished and is 100% ready to bolt under a vehicle and use. All hubs were removed cleaned repainted and reinstalled. All bearings and races were cleaned and isnspected to be 100% or replaced , regreased and reintstalled with new timken wheel seals . Brakes were redone with a 15" wheel disc conversion kit . All new chevy rotors were install with new calipers and new quality brake pads. King pins and ball joints are nice and tight with new zerk fittings installed .Lock out hubs were dissasembled , cleaned regreased and work nice and smooth . The axle currently has 3:54 gears in it . I am including in this auction( not pictured ) a nice used set of 4:10 gears and nice open carrier to match if you would like to swap the axle to 4:10 ratio. You can think your saving money by picking up a junk yard axle but when you get it home and see it needs seals ,brakes,wheel bearings , and u-joints the fun stops there........... This axle is ready to use.... Item is available for local pickup only in uniontown pa, 15401

[ridgerunner97]

GO LOOK AT IT, verify it is what it is. Otherwise, i'd say go for it! It Looks legitimate to me.

[tjblair]

It will be more work to do coils on that 60. It has a really short drivers side tube.

[justin'sbig7]

looks decent, i would want to know a buy it now price... still has 354 gears.

putting myself in your boat i think i would go with the axle krod posted, as long as its 410's. (theyre less common than the 354) and james 7and 7 14 bolt rear. imho the best deal goin... second would be abrzrkrs set of axles and tires, thats a lot for the money all youd need is a front 488 gearset.

[Mykal]

It will be more work to do coils on that 60. It has a really short drivers side tube.

Thats what I was afraid of.


looks decent, i would want to know a buy it now price... still has 354 gears.

putting myself in your boat i think i would go with the axle krod posted, as long as its 410's. (theyre less common than the 354) and james 7and 7 14 bolt rear. imho the best deal goin... second would be abrzrkrs set of axles and tires, thats a lot for the money all youd need is a front 488 gearset.

I was planning on going with Brzkrs axles and tires and picking up the 14b as well. I have a friend that will trade me welding for the rear 60. I seen that one was closer so figured Id ask about it.

My budget is set at $4000. Im figuring $2000 for axles, wheels and tires. $2000 to rebuild them and get them under it.

Price wise.

Brzkrs F/R 60 with new Irocks and wheels - $1800 plus a 4 hour drive. Id still need steering, gears, and misc rebuild parts. Trade the rear 60 for fab work.
James 14B with disc brackets and Krods D60 - $950 and a 2-3 hour drive. Id still need steering, wheels, tires, gears, misc rebuild parts.

Im not sure I could find new wheels and tires for $850.

[SirFuego]

I was actually planning to buy Abrzrkrs stuff until I traded a buddy for a 79 HP60. Iroks aren't my #1 choice for a tire (don't get me wrong, they work, but there are better tires out there for our type of wheeling), but go out and price a set of 4 iroks and matching wheels -- and that is a smoking deal. From my understanding the wheels or tires have never even been used or mounted. Even if you don't use the rear 60, the 4.88 gearset is definitely worth something in resale and could probably get a few bucks for the shafts, too.

[justin'sbig7]

i am thinking i am gonna be getting rid of all of my knuckle sets and hi steer arms to see if i can swing a pair of reid knuckles since i am full hydro.

also, dont sell the rear 60 short, truss it and it is just as bulletproof but lighter.

[Mykal]

The ebay axle seller sent this



When i purchased it , I was told it was pulled from 1993 pickup. This is a king pin housing. It has the wider of the two perch widhts for a ford king pin 60. If ford switched to ball joints in 93 then i guess its possible this is a 1992 or 1991 housing. Either way this is an early 90's KING PIN DANA 60. Thanks for cathching that.
Reserve is $1000.00
Whats a BOM?

[BUZZINHALFDOZZEN]

Or you could just buy buzzinhalfdozens rocks ;) cheaper than tons.

Great idea!

[joe_and_jeep]

Great idea!

If I had the cash I'd buy them. I was thinking about selling my Samurai to buy them.

[joe_and_jeep]

It will be more work to do coils on that 60. It has a really short drivers side tube.

I have a Super Duty 60 which has an even shorter drivers side. I just cut an inch of the chunk and welded the lower bracket half to the chunk and half to the tube, worked awesome. My XJ has the upper mount welded to the cast too, 4 years ago. Done properly it's fine.

[tjblair]

I have a Super Duty 60 which has an even shorter drivers side. I just cut an inch of the chunk and welded the lower bracket half to the chunk and half to the tube, worked awesome. My XJ has the upper mount welded to the cast too, 4 years ago. Done properly it's fine.

Never said it couldnt be done, just that it is more work.