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View Full Version : So Tom stopped by today..



justin'sbig7
04-16-2011, 08:54 PM
and decided he needed to make a cage for the cj5. heres a days work
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f214/justinsbig7/4c4b3b84.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f214/justinsbig7/a735d53e.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f214/justinsbig7/3332a116.jpg

and heres the notches i kicked out with the notcher i bought off of overkillzj (great to finally meet you matt!)

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f214/justinsbig7/669f36e9.jpg

limegreentj
04-16-2011, 08:56 PM
very sexy! looks great!

Deadman 94 xj
04-16-2011, 09:09 PM
Justin, I owe you big time for your expert supervison! My arms are already sore, lol! I'm really happy with the way everything turned out today.

No way I could notch like that though. The man's got skills!

PatF10
04-16-2011, 09:19 PM
nice looks good, will give me some ideas for my cage when i finally decide to build one

RalphDogg
04-16-2011, 09:38 PM
great, looks light and strong!

atvboo
04-16-2011, 09:44 PM
Man makes me want to do mine for the back just not enough money yet looks great.

justin'sbig7
04-16-2011, 10:19 PM
great, looks light and strong!

Theres still a couple of spreaders that tom is putting in the top to add triangulation, a belt bar behind the seats and a couple windshield spreaders. My bendtech file puts it at 108lbs total

OverkillZJ
04-16-2011, 10:55 PM
Nice!

OverkillZJ
04-17-2011, 09:42 PM
oops.

jackb1
04-18-2011, 08:50 AM
That looks great!

justin'sbig7
04-18-2011, 11:16 AM
That looks great!

yes it does! and, its made in 'merica too!

highlandercj-7
04-18-2011, 03:58 PM
Nice work Justin!

justin'sbig7
04-18-2011, 05:20 PM
Nice work Tom!

FIFY i sat and yelled... its good to be the supervisor

Sycotik Skier
04-18-2011, 08:44 PM
As soon as I get my trans together I might have to stop by and let you supervise. We saw the jeep in the garage Saturday but my buddy refused to stop, something about him wanting us to finish his jeep. Tom, it does look awesome!!!!

JeepGeneral
04-18-2011, 09:08 PM
Justin, I've been browsing a ton of cage design posts lately and am trying to come up with a simple design for my TJ. What's your thoughts on having a one piece, bent A pillar versus a 2 piece, welded A pillar? It looks like Tom's cage has one long piece of tube with multiple bends for the A and C pillar with a straight B pillar, which is the style I prefer. However, I would like to tie the windshield frame into the cage (similar to the stock cage) and figure its easier to do with the straight A pillar. Any advantages to either design?

Here are some examples to help make sense of my crappy descriptions:

One piece, bent A pillar
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b109/bigblackblur/solidcage.jpg

Two piece, welded A pillar
http://a532.ac-images.myspacecdn.com/images01/70/l_523d5c73d568cc29254d117f9fbbd32b.jpg

justin'sbig7
04-18-2011, 09:19 PM
i would personally do the A to C as one piece, and add a little spur for the windshield support. i do not like to tie the windshield into the cage though, when you start flexing and twisting, the glass doesnt take kindly to it.

justin'sbig7
04-18-2011, 09:21 PM
more progress
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f214/justinsbig7/2c4d6a9a.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f214/justinsbig7/22f05035.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f214/justinsbig7/cc1ca49a.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f214/justinsbig7/50e623fe.jpg

ridgerunner97
04-18-2011, 09:24 PM
Is there going to be more triangulation on the top guys? I love the look of it so far.

JeepGeneral
04-18-2011, 09:30 PM
Are you tying it into the frame or the body?

Deadman 94 xj
04-18-2011, 09:39 PM
Thanks for the complements guys. It will get tied into the frame. I was able to use the frame tie in kit that was on it for the C pillar and there will be new tie-ins for the A and B pillars.

Jon, there will be two additional tubes up top that run from the centered bar to the outsides of the brow bar.

jackb1
04-19-2011, 10:36 AM
Do you think the 304 will handle all that extra weight?

Deadman 94 xj
04-19-2011, 11:36 AM
Do you think the 304 will handle all that extra weight?

lol, yeah, I think it'll be fine. I'd imagine there will be some differences in handling characteristics and stuff like that. In other words, I'll probably be able to "feel" it but the 304 actually pulls pretty well for what it is.

jackb1
04-19-2011, 11:41 AM
I think you took that too literally. You won't notice it.

I'm liking the lowered center of the crossbar above the windshield. Give the Jeep a mean-face.

Deadman 94 xj
04-19-2011, 11:43 AM
I think you took that too literally. You won't notice it.

I'm liking the lowered center of the crossbar above the windshield. Give the Jeep a mean-face.

Oh, lol. I'm used to you giving me a hard time about it. If it is, I'll just sneak by and steal your 360 :D.

jackb1
04-19-2011, 11:45 AM
Naw, go get a man's engine and put in a 401. Or do the right thing and just put in a chevy to mate up to that transmission you're trying to put in.

Deadman 94 xj
04-19-2011, 11:57 AM
LOl, we'll see. I like the AMC thing but the chevy thing makes a whole lot of sense in more than one way.

justin'sbig7
04-19-2011, 12:11 PM
401's are worth too much to use. :D

Deadman 94 xj
04-19-2011, 12:19 PM
LOL! Livingroom coffee table or some other decorative use. Maybe a glass display.

jackb1
04-19-2011, 12:23 PM
Naw, go get a man's engine and put in a 401. Or do the right thing and just put in a chevy to mate up to that transmission you're trying to put in.

I half retract that comment. I thought you were doing an SM transmission.

Deadman 94 xj
04-19-2011, 12:27 PM
I half retract that comment. I thought you were doing an SM transmission.

No, I agree. I haven't put a lot of thought into engine upgrades. Everything will be based on what's in it so I'd more than likely stick with AMC and kick myself later on when I find a nice chevy for half the cost.

ridgerunner97
04-19-2011, 12:53 PM
Or you could do a Ford smallblock that would bolt right up to the NP435 if you decide to get rid of the 304 :)

mxg342
04-19-2011, 01:21 PM
401's are worth too much to use. :D

Truer words have never been spoken. I got $400 out of a junk one.

The 360 is the better of the AMC motors in my opinion. They don't have the overheating issues of the 401 and they're easy to find.

Deadman 94 xj
04-19-2011, 01:22 PM
True. I've got a lot of learning to do. Hopefully the 304 lasts long enough to take it all in lol.

Super Scout
04-19-2011, 02:51 PM
I would think a 304 would be plenty of motor. Whatever you do don't take Jons advice.

Deadman 94 xj
04-19-2011, 03:18 PM
I would think a 304 would be plenty of motor. Whatever you do don't take Jons advice.

LOL! With proper gearing when it's all said and done, it should be ok. That said, I see a 360 in my future at some point. I don't want to begin thinking about that though.

2002wranglerX
04-19-2011, 05:14 PM
Justins 304 had plenty to kill a 60 shaft and a front driveshaft this weekend :-)

always broke
04-19-2011, 05:35 PM
Or maybe that was his 350......

My 5 had a 304 with a T18 and 4:10's running on 33's. I was running aussie locked narrow tracs and i thought it was a blast. I rode in both matt and justin 7's on 36's and quite a few others and while they are fun, I thought the short 5 with the narrow tracs was a little more fun because of places it would squeeze and its overall unstabality on the narrow axles. Still was able to cruise around town in it too. Capable for 90% of trails around here without being bored the rest of the time and still streetable. Sure I broke a ujoint every now and then and a few 30 shafts, but I could pick up a complete narrow trac 30 for less than what you pay for pizza. The 304 is plenty of motor, 360 is cooler. The only thing i would add is a TBI setup.

If I was building another 5 (and thats what Id pick to do) it would be a 304 or 360, T18, locked wide tracks with chromo axles on 35's with 4:56's. I think that would be perfect. Add a cage for when it flops over, and some other goodies, steering, rockers etc. I think that would be perfect for around here and a blast to drive.

I really like this rig, I'd just hate to see you go too far with it since its such a beauty.

2002wranglerX
04-19-2011, 05:40 PM
I thought just ins had a healthy 304...

justin'sbig7
04-19-2011, 05:52 PM
I thought just ins had a healthy 304...

It used to, wish i woulda fuel injected that engine. It would pull the front wheels off the line and spanked an svt stang (with 35" tires to boot!)

I am now running a tbi jasper 350sb bored .030 over

justin'sbig7
04-19-2011, 09:23 PM
Is there going to be more triangulation on the top guys? I love the look of it so far.

like this?
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f214/justinsbig7/32a50570.jpg



http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f214/justinsbig7/9d4fc6af.jpg

Sycotik Skier
04-19-2011, 09:43 PM
<---jealous. Awesome work

ridgerunner97
04-19-2011, 09:44 PM
Looks great :) I'm fairly confident Tom will try this thing out sometime this summer, hell maybe in May. We've got a lot of wheelin lined up LOL

Deadman 94 xj
04-19-2011, 09:52 PM
Looks great :) I'm fairly confident Tom will try this thing out sometime this summer, hell maybe in May. We've got a lot of wheelin lined up LOL

Nooooo. There will be no trying it out anytime. It's for piece of mind only. :D

Sycotik Skier
04-19-2011, 09:54 PM
kinda like this one is going to be a mall crawler Tom?

Deadman 94 xj
04-19-2011, 10:01 PM
kinda like this one is going to be a mall crawler Tom?


LOL! That's exactly what it's going to be.

Sycotik Skier
04-19-2011, 10:03 PM
on tons with a gorgeous roll cage....right

ridgerunner97
04-19-2011, 10:05 PM
hahahahahaha

Deadman 94 xj
04-19-2011, 10:05 PM
on tons with a gorgeous roll cage....right

...Chrome roll cage!

Christopher
04-20-2011, 03:03 AM
Nice work looks great

Deadman 94 xj
04-20-2011, 10:35 AM
I really like this rig, I'd just hate to see you go too far with it since its such a beauty.


Hey, I just saw this so I figured I owe ya a reply. I understand where you're coming from and I know you've been around so because of that, I respect your opinion. I agree it's a nice jeep and I'd be lying if I said I wasn't a little apprehensive about my plans for it. I know I've asked a lot of questions about where I should go with it, and as a result it might seem like my latest decision was made on a whim, but that isn't the case. If you go back and look at my thread, the first post descibes exactly what I'm doing. I just kinda went in a circle and came back to that point.

That said, I've put a ton of thought into what I want to do with it and I don't feel like I owe anyone an explination but I guess I'm here explaining myself lol. I like the jeep too! I don't want to turn it into a buggy or a hack fab job that we see so much of. Sure it's getting big axles but I also just located and installed an origional tach :D. The axle decison was made by me, because I don't want to break. That's it. No other reason than that. I'm putting money into them that won't go to waist.

Maybe later on I'll regret all of it, like some guys have said, but I doubt it with the way I want to do things.

Deadman 94 xj
04-22-2011, 01:06 PM
Ok, well, bringing this back up since I seem to have put a sour taste in this thread with my last reply. We couldn't let it end on ^^that note. Sorry 'always broke' if I came off the wrong way lol.

Anyway, we're planning on going back at it tomorrow to finish up. That's the plan anyway. I'll post up some pics when/if we get there!

OverkillZJ
04-22-2011, 01:12 PM
Nooooo. There will be no trying it out anytime. It's for piece of mind only. :D


...Until I'm egging you on again :overkill:

Deadman 94 xj
04-22-2011, 01:22 PM
...Until I'm egging you on again :overkill:

LOL! You have nooo room to talk.

jackb1
04-22-2011, 01:38 PM
So Tom stopped by today.. (http://www.pgh-offroad.com/forum/showthread.php?16835-So-Tom-stopped-by-today..)

I'm sorry to hear that

Deadman 94 xj
04-22-2011, 01:42 PM
Dick.

jackb1
04-22-2011, 01:43 PM
Now that reply says "I'm not a puss"!

Deadman 94 xj
04-22-2011, 01:46 PM
now that reply says "i'm not a puss"!

lol! :overkill:


My peepee is bigger than your peepee.

jackb1
04-22-2011, 02:18 PM
Stay out of my thread

I know

jackb1
04-22-2011, 02:24 PM
insert attempt at witty comeback from Tom right about now.....

Deadman 94 xj
04-22-2011, 02:25 PM
I know

I didn't say that. Nice one though. It's your word against mine!

Anyway, I can't think of anything...lol.

Deadman 94 xj
04-22-2011, 02:28 PM
insert attempt at witty comeback from Tom right about now.....

LOL! I said I wasn't very good at them. But in that case, stay out of my thread!

justin'sbig7
04-22-2011, 03:04 PM
at least its a fiberglass body... they make new ones every day if you dont like it. :flipoff2:

Deadman 94 xj
04-22-2011, 03:23 PM
at least its a fiberglass body... they make new ones every day if you dont like it. :flipoff2:

lol! I quit. I'm too tired today for comebacks. This thread turned to shit lol. ...and it's all my fault because I was being nice.

I'm going home :(


:flipoff2:

justin'sbig7
04-22-2011, 03:28 PM
go home and go to bed, 5am comes awfully early :D

Deadman 94 xj
04-22-2011, 03:29 PM
go home and go to bed, 5am comes awfully early :D

LOL!!! 8am!

ridgerunner97
04-22-2011, 04:02 PM
Shit, Justin if he shows up at 8am you'll be lucky as hell, it will probably be closer to noon!

Deadman 94 xj
04-22-2011, 04:08 PM
go home and go to bed, 5am comes awfully early :D

LOL! I fixed that problem. I got a new alarm clock. Marisa hasn't had to wake me up for anything in over a month!

justin'sbig7
04-22-2011, 04:14 PM
Marisa hasn't had to wake me up for anything in over a month!

hmmm, that may be a problem in itself...

Deadman 94 xj
04-22-2011, 04:23 PM
LOL! I'm not going to go there.

always broke
04-22-2011, 06:03 PM
Ok, well, bringing this back up since I seem to have put a sour taste in this thread with my last reply. We couldn't let it end on ^^that note. Sorry 'always broke' if I came off the wrong way lol.


Holy cow, Im not offended. You give me way too much credit, I know next to nothing about jeeps. Im just a young online punk. The jeep looks great, cage work is awesome, and I hope to be out on the trails with you sometime and you can drag me around. If you ever wheel with me, that the way it ends up, me at the end of someones strap being drug out of the woods. I like how the overall build plan is evolving too, good luck.
I like the frown in the front cross bar, looks mean!

So, carry on, post more pics....of the jeep, not the peepee length contest. We all know its about girth anyway.

Wrecker
04-22-2011, 07:17 PM
If the wife isnt getting him up for anything, I dont think anyone has anything to fear in the peepee size contest.

ridgerunner97
04-22-2011, 08:56 PM
^ Win!!!

Deadman 94 xj
04-22-2011, 10:20 PM
Holy cow, Im not offended. You give me way too much credit, I know next to nothing about jeeps. Im just a young online punk. The jeep looks great, cage work is awesome, and I hope to be out on the trails with you sometime and you can drag me around. If you ever wheel with me, that the way it ends up, me at the end of someones strap being drug out of the woods. I like how the overall build plan is evolving too, good luck.
I like the frown in the front cross bar, looks mean!

So, carry on, post more pics....of the jeep, not the peepee length contest. We all know its about girth anyway.

lol! thanks buddy.

To the rest of you guys, my peepee is prefectly... content.

Back on topic!!!!

2002wranglerX
04-22-2011, 10:58 PM
speaking of pee pee size... why are you wimping out with 38's? all that's going to happen is you're going to follow justin and me down guru and put them up for sale for some 40's :D


hehehehehe jk man...



and as far as not being woken up, i don't want to hear about it. i'm 6 weeks away from baby amelia showing up...

Ragnorox
04-22-2011, 11:02 PM
lol! thanks buddy.

To the rest of you guys, my peepee is prefectly... content.

Back on topic!!!!

Is that why Marisa calls you Wee Willy Winky?

Deadman 94 xj
04-22-2011, 11:32 PM
speaking of pee pee size... why are you wimping out with 38's? all that's going to happen is you're going to follow justin and me down guru and put them up for sale for some 40's :D


hehehehehe jk man...



and as far as not being woken up, i don't want to hear about it. i'm 6 weeks away from baby amelia showing up...


LOL! Congrats BTW. Not sure I ever told you that. As far as the tire size, because I want some space between the rubber!


Is that why Marisa calls you Wee Willy Winky?


It has nothing to do with my sig.


You guys are nuts. I'm done talking about willy's unless you want to talk about old jeeps!

justin'sbig7
04-23-2011, 04:31 PM
seat mounts are in.
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f214/justinsbig7/f9dc6639.jpg

http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f214/justinsbig7/579213fb.jpg

widdle brudder
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f214/justinsbig7/942c0862.jpg

ready to head home
http://i48.photobucket.com/albums/f214/justinsbig7/5b950c4f.jpg

Wrecker
04-23-2011, 05:03 PM
because I want some space between the rubber!

Yea thats what we been saying, you gots lots of room in there.

But to be serious now, its looks damn good.

Deadman 94 xj
04-23-2011, 10:11 PM
Yea thats what we been saying, you gots lots of room in there.

But to be serious now, its looks damn good.

Thanks!

Long day! The cage is out, degreased and primered. I'll get pics up as soon as marisa gets home with the camera.


Justin, thanks for all your help buddy.

Sycotik Skier
04-24-2011, 10:30 AM
awesome work!

jackb1
04-25-2011, 08:57 AM
in that case, stay out of my thread!

Can I come back?

Finished out nice. I'm loving the pimp-lean you've got on the seats.

You're painting it silver, right?

Deadman 94 xj
04-25-2011, 09:19 AM
Can I come back?

Finished out nice. I'm loving the pimp-lean you've got on the seats.

You're painting it silver, right?

Yeah, the lean works out perfectly for me. Seeing as I'm kinda tall I needed the seat back as far as possible and low, but I needed the front of the seat raised up a bit to keep my legs confortable.

It worked out great.



Paint, I'm not sure yet. It was sliver metallic but now I'm leaning more gold or a copper metallic. Still deciding though.

Thoughts?

Deadman 94 xj
04-25-2011, 11:46 AM
I *think* I'm going to go with this:

http://www.thetoolworkshop.com/rustoleumgldrshmtlcspraypaint7270-830.aspx

It's called gold rush, which is a little less bling than the regular gold, I think. We'll see lol.

jackb1
04-25-2011, 12:00 PM
http://i11.photobucket.com/albums/a191/nomamm/goldmember.png

Deadman 94 xj
04-25-2011, 12:06 PM
lol! Yeah...that's what I was thinking but I think it'll look sharp.


Look at the license plate in the pic above.



Edit: Ok, gold is out. Silver is in.

Deadman 94 xj
04-25-2011, 08:09 PM
So I picked poop color :D

Actually it;s called antique brass metallic.
http://www.homedepot.com/webapp/wcs/stores/servlet/ProductDisplay?storeId=10051&productId=202041168&langId=-1&catalogId=10053&isShowFreeShipping=true&ci_sku=202041168&amtLeftForFreeShip=249.00&ci_src=14110944&isOrderQualifiesForFreeShip=false&cm_mmc=shopping-_-googlebase-_-D24X-_-202041168&locStoreNum=4136


I don't think the pic does it justice but it turned out pretty good. We'll see how it all looks on the jeep.


http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t250/tnetz777/CJ5098.jpg

jackb1
04-25-2011, 08:25 PM
Wow, you have pretty poop.




I actually really like that. I think it has potential to look awesome.

Deadman 94 xj
04-25-2011, 08:33 PM
Thanks! It's a little more gold looking in the pic I think. I'm color blind though.

ridgerunner97
04-25-2011, 09:23 PM
Tom that is the color I saw in my mind's eye, it goes with the dash pad fairly well, it will look good.

justin'sbig7
04-25-2011, 09:38 PM
cages built in my garage are solid gold!

ridgerunner97
04-25-2011, 09:45 PM
^ hahaha this thread is full of win

Sloth_Fratelli
04-25-2011, 10:40 PM
Thoughts?

well hell you gave that alot of time to mull over lol.


i like the gold but personally i woulda gont with matte black. not flat or bed liner, matte. your 5 has a strong black/red combo going and i just think it would look mean, despite the fact that most everybodys cage is black.

yeah, thats right, i went to school to be a graphic designer. :flipoff2:

























for three months

Deadman 94 xj
04-25-2011, 11:00 PM
well hell you gave that alot of time to mull over lol.


i like the gold but personally i woulda gont with matte black. not flat or bed liner, matte. your 5 has a strong black/red combo going and i just think it would look mean, despite the fact that most everybodys cage is black.

yeah, thats right, i went to school to be a graphic designer. :flipoff2:

























for three months

LOL! Thanks. Black is ALWAYS an option and one that would have looked good on the jeep. I just have a weird thing about black. Remember the cherokee? Everything was gray because I wouldn't do black :D.

I think I'll leave the axles and bumpers black on this one though lol.

Sloth_Fratelli
04-25-2011, 11:11 PM
haha i know what your saying and its a really played out color but for some reason the red/black paint scheme you got going on works really well. i do however wanna see that donk cage in action tho

Ragnorox
04-26-2011, 12:40 AM
so you got a problem with black?

Sloth_Fratelli
04-26-2011, 08:49 AM
he hates your people mark

Ragnorox
04-26-2011, 03:20 PM
Ah Fred what EXACTLY are you trying to say..........http://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/images/smilies/poke.gifhttp://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/images/smilies/FIREdevil.gifhttp://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/images/smilies/nutkick.gifhttp://www.nvnews.net/vbulletin/images/smilies/bugeyes.gif

Deadman 94 xj
04-26-2011, 03:34 PM
lol, Mark your whole jeep is black. that's a little different than what I'm talking about.

Dammit fred.... backpedal backpedal.

radojim
04-26-2011, 08:39 PM
nice pipe, tom!! wait......

Sloth_Fratelli
04-26-2011, 09:44 PM
heh heh heh :unibrow:

OverkillZJ
04-27-2011, 01:26 PM
I can't wait to see this blingin' ride in person!

Deadman 94 xj
04-27-2011, 10:20 PM
I can't wait to see this blingin' ride in person!

lol! Thanks Matt.

The cage is in, still finishing up some odds and ends but I think it turned out pretty good. I can't get a full jeep shot since it's raining outside but here's one that shows the color at least. I put the carpet back in it. Not sure if that was a bright idea or not but it's in.

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t250/tnetz777/CJ5102.jpg

http://i162.photobucket.com/albums/t250/tnetz777/CJ5105.jpg

justin'sbig7
04-27-2011, 10:27 PM
Yeah, thats just right. Very nice on the color!

Sloth_Fratelli
04-28-2011, 08:42 AM
woah, i like that gold alot better than i thought i would lol. looks good tom.

ridgerunner97
04-28-2011, 09:01 AM
That color is what I was seeing in my mind Tom, it matches the carpet great.

Wrecker
04-28-2011, 09:09 AM
Looks good Tom.

Deadman 94 xj
04-28-2011, 09:43 AM
Thanks guys.

Jon, I think it does match the carpet pretty good. I think what's throwing it off is the seats. Once I have the dash pad in I'll have every different shade of tan there is lol.

ridgerunner97
04-28-2011, 09:45 AM
LOL how did you wind up gettin the cage back in it, I thought you were goin to need a hand? Oh by the way i'm waiting to hear back about your inspection, I'll txt ya later when my buddy gets back to me

Deadman 94 xj
04-28-2011, 09:48 AM
I had a friend of mine help me out. He was in the area already. Getting it out by myself was a bitch! I almost fell out of the jeep, holding the cage....wouldn't have been pretty lol.

justin'sbig7
04-28-2011, 03:30 PM
Thanks guys.

Jon, I think it does match the carpet pretty good. I think what's throwing it off is the seats. Once I have the dash pad in I'll have every different shade of tan there is lol.

I dont think the seats throw it off at all. The two tone of it really seems to complement the cage and interior as a whole. One of the nicest jeep interiors i have seen in a while

Deadman 94 xj
04-28-2011, 03:46 PM
Nice sig Justin, :082:

jackb1
04-28-2011, 04:41 PM
I prefer when the drapes match the carpet, but it is nice when the cage matches the carpet too.

Wrecker
04-28-2011, 05:45 PM
I prefer when the drapes match the carpet, but it is nice when the cage matches the carpet too.

No carpet, perfer hardwood.

jackb1
04-28-2011, 05:47 PM
Hard wood?

j/k