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View Full Version : Looking to buy a handgun, need help.



funnyguy595
02-23-2012, 06:36 PM
First, let me start by saying i know VERY little about guns in general. I would like to purchase a hand gun and I have a few questions I am sure you guys could answer.

1: Where would I be able to take a gun safety course?
2: I would prefer a semi-auto over a revolver (I'm not really sure why, thats just what I want). What caliber would you suggest/ and Why?
3: Is there a place where I could "try out" some diffrent guns before I decide?

I stopped in Gander Mountain the other day for some camping items and strolled over to the gun counter. I started to talk to the salesman there, and when I ask about guns and told him I was unfamiliar with them he decided to try to sell me some 1100 dollar 1911 gun. I got the impression he was trying to sell me something more than I really need, so I left.
This is where you all come. I really just want it for personal protection and probably more then likely target shooting. I would rather have it and not use it then need it and not have it.

Thanks,
Steve

ridgerunner97
02-23-2012, 06:47 PM
Haha typical asshole salesperson. I have a Ruger P91DC in .40S&W and a Kel-Tec P11 9mm compact. I prefer the .40 or .45 as a personal defense round, however the 9mm is a good caliber as well. If you haven't shot a lot of pistols the .40 or 9mm wouldn't be a bad caliber, recoil isn't bad and 9mm is fairly economical to shoot at the range all day as well. I'm sure that a bunch of us could set up a range day sometime somewhere and that could be a good place to try out a lot of different pistols. I know Josh normally has a pistol/rifle shoot fairly often at his house. The other HUGE thing is that people are going to recommend all different kinds of pistols to you. You need to get one that feels good in your hand and is a good firearm. You'll know what I mean when you grab the right gun by it feels right in your hand.

Mykal
02-23-2012, 07:06 PM
Will you be shooting it on a regular basis?
9mm is a great round. Dont let anyone tell you that you need a .45

The first thing to do is get your hands on a few different models. Im not local so I cant tell you where to go.
After you find one that fits your hands pick up a couple more just to be sure.
Normally each caliber has 2-3 different frame sizes as well. Full size, Compact and Sub Compact.

Big names are Glock, Springfield, S&W, Sig Sauer.
Stay clear of Kel-Tec or High-Point.

After you buy it, take your class then practice on a regular basis in different situations. Keep us updated.

You are going to get 50 different opinions on caliber, model and manufacturer.

Ragnorox
02-23-2012, 07:14 PM
XD for the Win!

steveg0690
02-23-2012, 08:20 PM
Don't let anyone tell you to stay away from Hi-point. They may not be a perfect and accurate weapon, but it is a perfect carry gun to keep with you or in your car. I don't go anywhere without my Highpoint 9mm. It was cheap, like $129 New. I don't care if it gets beat up, If this is your first weapon don't go and spend $1000 on a gun until YOU are ready.

Flame away...:popcorn2:

busij44
02-23-2012, 08:40 PM
My thoughts on the matter.....
http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b111/busij44/45jpg.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b111/busij44/45ACP.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b111/busij44/349_1000.jpg

http://i18.photobucket.com/albums/b111/busij44/Pee.jpg


nuff said.....:biggrin:

joshs1ofakindxj
02-23-2012, 08:41 PM
I'll be out of town this weekend, but maybe next weekend or whatever you can come out to my place out in the woods and try a bunch of different guns out. 22, 380, 9mm, 45, 38spl, etc. Just bring beer to cover the cost of ammo, for after the shooting of course.

There is some big study on self defense caliber selection going around that claims to be the final word and I agree with it, caliber isn't nearly as important as training. Being able to put hits on target and fast follow up shots is the most important. So plan to buy a caliber you're ready to buy in bulk and practice with a good bit before you consider yourself ready to defend yourself.

I used to be a 45 or the highway kind of guy, till I picked up a specific 9mm and I was WAY more accurate with it. Now that could be just me and a particular brand of gun, and caliber is irrelevant, but I know I can put fast shots on target repeatedly with one and not the other.

Check out the S&W Sigma series as a good first handgun. Everyone complains about the trigger pull being heavy but it might be something you like and if not, it can be changed easily.

PatF10
02-23-2012, 08:47 PM
One nice thing about your big name guns, S&W, springfield, ruger...ect if you keep them in good condition they amost never drop in value. Im guessing you probably wont carry at first being that you arent all to familiar with guns. This means you can get a full framed gun should give you better accuracy when shooting. 22 is about the best starting point as far as becoming familiar with technique and low dollar shooting. But if you want something with self defense in mind id probably go 9mm. Relatively low recoil, and still has enough take down power in most situations. Its also fairly economical to shoot.

Another thing to keep in mind there is no problem shooting cheap/junk ammo at the range. If you jam at the range no big deal just clear it and keep having fun. If you are going to keep the gun stored for self defense leave good high quality ammo in it, its typically less likely to jam. Or buy a revolver and basically forget about jams!

But try to get out to the range with someone, learn the ropes a little and find out hands on what you like and enjoy to shoot most.

Sycotik Skier
02-23-2012, 09:54 PM
I'm also kinda sorta in the market for a handgun. A coworker offered me a s&w sigma in 40 caliber with factory case, three mags and a hundred rounds. I've shot it already and I like it. Not as nice as the Sig Sauer of his he let me shoot but it still fit me well. Is $300 a decent price?

jason8301
02-23-2012, 11:34 PM
Also a big fan of the hi-point 9mm, I am NOT a huge gun guy, but love to shoot and do have my carry conceal permit. Like everyone else is saying a 9mm is good for self defense and cheap to shoot, the hi-point is at i think gander mt for $180, yes it's a cheap gun, thats why i like it, but it's not a piece of crap either...when I first got mine many people told me it's a junk gun, but I bet i've put atleast 200 rds through it and not one jam, as far as accuracy, do you live in a mansion? Is some one kicking in your front door so far away from you that you need a super accurate sniper pistol?????

Super Scout
02-23-2012, 11:47 PM
Look for local gun ranges, a lot of them will have a try before you buy. Army Navy store in Latrobe has a range, try before you buy, and training classes. I am sure you could find one more local to you. I have a Ruger, Sig Sauer, and had a Kel Tec. They all worked fine. I personally like my Ruger P89 more than the Sigp226. I hate Glock, I think they are worthless pieces of garbage. That said some people would say rugers are garbage and Glocks are the greatest guns in the world. Its about preference, find a gun that fits you well. I would personally stick with a better brand, for the 500-600 dollar range you could find a great gun. Ruger, Glock, Springfield, S&W, SIG, there are a few others aswell. Also don't be afraid to buy used, you can save a ton of money and still walk away with a fantastic gun. I bought a "used" GP100 for almost 100 under because it was used tho the gun was never fired. So shop around.

EddyB
02-24-2012, 01:05 AM
Also a big fan of the hi-point 9mm, I am NOT a huge gun guy, but love to shoot and do have my carry conceal permit. Like everyone else is saying a 9mm is good for self defense and cheap to shoot, the hi-point is at i think gander mt for $180, yes it's a cheap gun, thats why i like it, but it's not a piece of crap either...when I first got mine many people told me it's a junk gun, but I bet i've put atleast 200 rds through it and not one jam, as far as accuracy, do you live in a mansion? Is some one kicking in your front door so far away from you that you need a super accurate sniper pistol?????

Wow 200 whole rounds, you must shoot a lot...


Now on to the accuracy statement. Someone who goes shooting once a year and puts all their rounds on the paper and says "Gee, that's good enough. That paper is smaller than the chest of a human" is gonna be in for a big surprise when the adrenaline starts flowing and their groups more than double in size.

My father owns a Hi Point and honestly it is fairly accurate and I've never seen it jam but if I'm gonna trust my life or the life of a loved one I'm not gonna do it with that thing that half the time I have to fight with it to get the slide stop disengaged. There is a reason it cost's that much, it's inferior.

Super Scout
02-24-2012, 08:08 AM
The question that you need to ask is (would you trust your life to it). If you can confidently answer yes to that question in regards to a Hi Point than wow.... A friend had one, he tried to give it to me I refused, the gun feels crappy. If money is that big of an issue look at a used gun. I think I paid 380 for my ruger P89 and I would trust my life to it without question. I have put 1000s of rounds thru it and the gun never jams. Also look into Layaway, thats how I bought all my guns years ago... Make a monthly payment and in a few months you own it.

ridgerunner97
02-24-2012, 08:33 AM
In all reality you can get a ruger P series, which is a HELL of a good pistol for under 400 bucks all day long used. Hell normally I've been seeing them for 300-350 very consistently. ONLY drawback to a P series Ruger and I don't really consider it a drawback, is that they are on the heavier side. They are a full size service pistol and built like it. I've heard people jokingly say that when you run out of ammo in a P series you can just as easily put down whatever is coming after you by swinging it like a club LOL

joshs1ofakindxj
02-24-2012, 09:17 AM
I'm also kinda sorta in the market for a handgun. A coworker offered me a s&w sigma in 40 caliber with factory case, three mags and a hundred rounds. I've shot it already and I like it. Not as nice as the Sig Sauer of his he let me shoot but it still fit me well. Is $300 a decent price?

I would go $250.

joshs1ofakindxj
02-24-2012, 09:21 AM
Now on to the accuracy statement. Someone who goes shooting once a year and puts all their rounds on the paper and says "Gee, that's good enough. That paper is smaller than the chest of a human" is gonna be in for a big surprise when the adrenaline starts flowing and their groups more than double in size.

Ya, that about hits the nail on the head.

Try sprinting full out for 300 yards, then let me sack tap you and punch you in the face, and THEN put all rounds on target. You will then be ready, grasshopper.

I had an eye-opening experience that wasn't too exciting but it showed me how the adrenaline effect can throw you. I was shooting at a car with a bunch of friends and I felt something hit me in the side of the head. My mind kind of went worst case and I felt a little disoriented and my vision went into tunnel vision mode haha because I had a legit adrenaline rush. I thought something bad had hit me, like a ricochet. I was in the middle of a mag change and just stopped what I was doing until I realized it was just an empty casing from my friend's handgun that made a straight line for the side of my head, but in a gunfight, this minor thing could of cost me 5-10 seconds or more, and possibly my life. So in conclusion, maybe Jon can start throwing rocks at me while I'm shooting.

For the record, the car mentioned above was a target on my range haha. I re-read that and it might sound odd to someone not familiar with how we operate out home.

Super Scout
02-24-2012, 09:25 AM
Agree ^ with the comment about accuracy but hell I probably read in the NRA riflemans magazine every month about some 80-90 year old man or woman killing someone with revolver they hadn't fired in 30 years. Adrenaline can help you focus as well.

joshs1ofakindxj
02-24-2012, 09:29 AM
Ya, I became super focused on what hit me in the side of the head. I lost all focus on mag changing and continuing to shoot. That was what I was getting at.

Super Scout
02-24-2012, 09:38 AM
Lol, well carrying is a lot different than home defense, plus the 85 year old grandma has an element of surpirse when she pulls out her .357 on a would be theif.

Ronin152
02-24-2012, 12:43 PM
There is an indoor range south of Pittsburgh, I forget the make but just Google gun range on g maps. They rent guns and havr all the ones you are interested in.

MemorEsto
02-24-2012, 12:52 PM
Stay clear of Kel-Tec or High-Point.

.
You care to elaborate ? I have a few High Points and have never had problems. Yes they are heavy , but also American made and lifetime warranty.
I also have a 1911 .45 and Ruger SR .40 as well as other small hand guns. But the 1911 and Ruger get carried most

Wrecker
02-24-2012, 01:00 PM
Josh, I look at what happened to you differently. I see it as you felt something unfamilier while shooting. You did the best thing under a potential safety issue. You stopped and identified the cause. Why would you continue reloading when you might be injured. You knew you were around friendlies. So I would rethink your self on that situation. But under stress our bodies to strange things.

Mykal
02-24-2012, 02:33 PM
You care to elaborate ? I have a few High Points and have never had problems. Yes they are heavy , but also American made and lifetime warranty.
I also have a 1911 .45 and Ruger SR .40 as well as other small hand guns. But the 1911 and Ruger get carried most

No, I dont. If you want to trust your life to a cheap weapon thats your business.

joshs1ofakindxj
02-24-2012, 02:56 PM
There is an indoor range south of Pittsburgh, I forget the make but just Google gun range on g maps. They rent guns and havr all the ones you are interested in.

Anthony Arms on Lebanon Church Rd has an indoor range. I hear they can a real pain the ass sometimes. I've only been there once and didn't interact with them much.

joshs1ofakindxj
02-24-2012, 02:58 PM
Josh, I look at what happened to you differently. I see it as you felt something unfamilier while shooting. You did the best thing under a potential safety issue. You stopped and identified the cause. Why would you continue reloading when you might be injured. You knew you were around friendlies. So I would rethink your self on that situation. But under stress our bodies to strange things.

Yup, I agree, and I'm just trying to convey the message to expect the unexpected and train hard.

2002wranglerX
02-24-2012, 03:17 PM
people can bag on a 9mm all they want. Mine has 17 rounds of hydroshock in it. I don't need to carry a spare mag.

there should be 1911 posters that say "1911... for when you only need 7 rounds" :)

i'm jk btw. i'm a big 1911 fan, but if i wasn't experience with pistols i wouldn't shoot one. I'd look more at a glock or XD. something that doesn't have an external hammer and something that you don't carry cocked and locked all the time.

DixieJeeper
02-24-2012, 03:50 PM
.380 and 9mm are nice affordable calibers to shoot and train. .40 and .45 are expensive even with target rounds. 9mm and .380 are also easier to conceal from the realative smaller sizes.

Keep in mind- shooting isn't something you do twice a year and say thats good enough now and put the gun in the locker or your CC holster. You should go regularly and train for the fight of your life- when/if you will need it you need to be second nature putting lead down range. So a 9mm is a good affordable cal. not to break the bank in training. If you are good a well place double tap to the chest and a single to the head with a 9mm will stop anyone in their tracks- that is IF you get the 9mm in the head.

The main reason LE went away from 9mm across the country is that a 9mm round in some cases didn't have enough stopping power. There are actual documentated cases of LEO's getting 2 rounds in to an assaliant only to have them keep coming. The general rule of thumb was/is that one round of .45 ACP = 2 rounds of 9mm in regards to stopping power. So .45 is pretty much the standard LE issue caliber. Keep that in mind also when selecting a caliber not knocking on 9mm or .380 at all just stating the facts.

I will go to the ends of the earth and say find what suits you best as caliber goes but don't go cheap. Go with something proven and field tested, reliable, safe, and can take abuse.

I perfer glock, its the benchmark and nearly a LE standard- so I am acustom to it, it is simple 4 parts less magazine to dissassemble, its reliable as hell run it over, abuse it, get it dirty, there are plenty of stories of how well the Glock holds up to abuse and is one of the man reasons nearly all federal agencies and many of the LE departments in the contry use Glock.

I want a gun that I have 0 doubt will work when I pull it, even if I abused or neglected it, if in a struggle it abused, there is no bar/lever saftey on a glock, the secondary trigger and then whammo. So in a fight for yoru life if someone is trying to disarm you there isn't anything to worry about getting set to "safety on"

... I am sure many of the other sidearms mentioned are great guns. I carry a .40 glock model 22 full frame- it is a great gun not alot of kick back but an awfull CC piece- its big, its bulky, I want to save up for a Glock model 26 9 mm as a better CC piece.


Ask yourself this would you try this with another gun?



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K_53z4S5-Y4&feature=related



http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0WIIKje1g2s&feature=related


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bj5Kcs4dzro&feature=related

2002wranglerX
02-24-2012, 03:55 PM
.380 and 9mm are nice affordable calibers to shoot and train. .40 and .45 are expensive even with target rounds. 9mm and .380 are also easier to conceal from the realative smaller sizes.

Keep in mind- shooting isn't something you do twice a year and say thats good enough now and put the gun in the locker or your CC holster. You should go regularly and train for the fight of your life- when/if you will need it you need to be second nature putting lead down range. So a 9mm is a good affordable cal. not to break the bank in training. If you are good a well place double tap to the chest and a single to the head with a 9mm will stop anyone in their tracks- that is IF you get the 9mm in the head.

The main reason LE went away from 9mm across the country is that a 9mm round in some cases didn't have enough stopping power. There are actual documentated cases of LEO's getting 2 rounds in to an assaliant only to have them keep coming. The general rule of thumb was/is that one round of .45 ACP = 2 rounds of 9mm in regards to stopping power. So .45 is pretty much the standard LE issue caliber. Keep that in mind also when selecting a caliber not knocking on 9mm or .380 at all just stating the facts.

I will go to the ends of the earth and say find what suits you best as caliber goes but don't go cheap. Go with something proven and field tested, erliable, safe, and can take abuse.

I perfer glock, its the benchmark and nearly a LE standard- so I am acustom to it, it is simple 4 parts less magazine to dissassemble, its reliable as hell run it over, abuse it, get it dirty, there are plenty of stories of how well the Glock holds up to abuse and is one of the man reasons nearly all federal agencies and many of the LE departments in the contry use Glock.

I want a gun that I have 0 doubt will work when I pull it, even if I abused or neglected it, if in a struggle it abused, there is no bar/lever saftey on a glock, the secondary trigger and then whammo. So in a fight for yoru life if someone is trying to disarm you there isn't anything to worry about getting set to "safety on"

... I am sure many of the other sidearms mentioned are great guns. I carry a .40 glock model 22 full frame- it is a great gun not alot of kick back but an awfull CC piece- its big, its bulky, I want to save up for a Glock model 26 9 mm as a better CC piece.

i have an FN P9 (9mm) as my carry gun. I have a bunch of other guns. Smith n wesson .40, taurus judge (that does sometimes ride along with me in the car), a bersa .380, a taurus .380 titanium, etc.

i'm just the most comfortable with that FN. i've had it 7 or 8 years. even if i don't shoot it for months, when i pick it up it's 100% familiar. shooting is a lot of muscle memory and that's the gun i know the best. so it's the one that gets carried.

i'm not a LEO. a 9mm is enough for my needs.

i am looking at the new taurus raging judge with .454 cassull capability for camping and occassionally carrying (hehehe) but my fn is what i'm comfortable with.

2002wranglerX
02-24-2012, 03:56 PM
the taurus is a .38 it won't let me edit

DixieJeeper
02-24-2012, 04:05 PM
Taurus makes a nice revolver- Father in law has one I think its a Taurus any way- hammerless revolover 7 round i believe.. my mother in law in her 60's can put lead down range effectively and on target and the last time she shot was in her teenage years on the farm with a bolt action. Thats saying something for the ease of the trigger pull and design of the weapon.

ridgerunner97
02-24-2012, 05:39 PM
Ask yourself this would you try this with another gun?

Yes I'd attempt that with a Ruger P series. If you were a LEO you should have been around enough P series to know what they can and will do in the line of duty.

2002wranglerX
02-24-2012, 05:58 PM
Yes I'd attempt that with a Ruger P series. If you were a LEO you should have been around enough P series to know what they can and will do in the line of duty.

my first gun was a p89. good gun

Super Scout
02-24-2012, 06:26 PM
I use to carry a Kel Tec 9mm, I sold it ro ridge. I am now looking for a .357 or .38 snub nose. I am more comfortable with revolvers. Plus they are very small an offer tons of knock down. And something should happen to me Lib could grab and fire in a heartbeat. Revovlers the orginal point a click interface lol.

Super Scout
02-24-2012, 06:26 PM
my first gun was a p89. good gun

P89 for the win, my first gun as well Still own it.

HoodRN
02-24-2012, 07:48 PM
No, I dont. If you want to trust your life to a cheap weapon thats your business.

+1 ... A High Point is better than a sharp stick, or a stern look, but that's about it. If a pistol malfunctions in the middle of a fight, a lifetime warranty could expire pretty quickly.

HoodRN
02-24-2012, 07:57 PM
Yes I'd attempt that with a Ruger P series. If you were a LEO you should have been around enough P series to know what they can and will do in the line of duty.

Actually, I saw that attempted with a P89DC (mine). It didn't go well. It also didn't go well with an HK P2000 9mm and a Sig P220 .45 auto. On the other hand, I've seen our armorers inspect Glocks that were broken (sheared frame rails) that still functioned perfectly. Glock customer service and technical support is outstanding as well. I called them regarding when to replace the recoil spring in my duty Glock 31, they overnighted me two new springs. Free of charge.

As far as the old "9mm vs .45 vs .40 vs blah,blah,blah", I've seen quite a few gunshot wounds, most of them inflicted with handguns. You put your rounds in the right place, you'll get the desired result with any of them. You want serious destruction? Bring a long gun to the fight. saw an autopsy on some poor soul that was popped with a .308 @ 75 meters...they ladled his liquified organs into bowls.

Fourx4sr4me
02-25-2012, 12:17 AM
Not sure if you would be interested, but I have a Taurus PT92C I was thinking about getting rid of? Asking $325 for it with one 13 round mag and a nice holster? PM me if you are interested.

JeepSteeler
02-25-2012, 07:58 AM
I would go $250.

I agree, maybe even $225 or $200. They are not pricy new. I have the 9mm version. Perfectly reliable, inexpensive gun. Hates PMC ammo but that's it. The trigger is revolver-like in feel (long). Train with it, not a problem.

A friend of mine sent his wife to a training class at Anthony Arms after he bought a Glock 26. I think he said it was about 4 hours of instruction and they actually only shot the gun a few times. So if you go there, ask how much shooting you'll actually get to do. Theory and technique are great, but so is "seat time" with your gun.

There are so many good guns these days it is hard to decide on a model or caliber. My daily carry is a .380 S&W Bodyguard mostly because it is extremely light, has good iron sights in addition to the laser, a good trigger, and I'll actually carry it because it is easy to carry. I've had heavier guns for carry and I found sometimes I'd leave them at home because of the weight or size. Consider what a gun weighs when fully loaded when considering this part of the equation.

Yes, .380 is a short 9mm and not a super-man stopper. All I know is I wouldn't want shot with anything, so I deem it sufficient. 7 rounds hopefully will give me enough to stop the threat or get out of the situation, which is the goal. I train with it at least twice a month.

I have a .357 S&W K frame revolver - heavy for daily carry, just fine for keeping around the house. The Sigma has a light/laser combo for night use. I have a Ruger LCP .380 with a CT laserguard. Good gun, but inferior to the Bodyguard.

I really like the Ruger SR9c compact as a 9mm carry, or the Beretta PX4 Storm, and I'll probably pick up one or the other soon. I'm trying to stick to just a few calibers for the purposes of ammo stocking/storage.

Some other random thoughts: if you are left handed, make sure you pick a gun with ambidextrous controls (XD for one). If you can wait a bit, hopefully we can organize a range day somewhere and get some guys to bring a bunch of different guns for you to try out. As for Hi-Point, my friend has a HP .45. I do not like it, nor does he. Have a lot of problems getting it to group reliably. But it does eat ammo ok. Rather inelegant and heavy. I can't say I would buy it, but that's my only experience with HP firearms.

My property is way up north, anybody have any place local where we could get a shoot together?

DixieJeeper
02-25-2012, 01:16 PM
Yes I'd attempt that with a Ruger P series. If you were a LEO you should have been around enough P series to know what they can and will do in the line of duty.

Ruger is an excellent weapon much like many other brands and models being discussed here.

I think the point is you don't see many manufactuers torture testing sucessfully their products like the glock. I have seen other weapons used in comparision torture tests and they haven't faired well like HoodRn said. Actually when the looking at full destruction test the glock usual escapes without injuring the shooter leaving you to fight off an assailant after the unlikley event of a full Kb!

As for weapons-

VSP uses sig Sauer
a majority of surrounding local LE/munipalities where I was used glock

Federal ageneices (and there are plenty where I was- like freaking alpabit soup)-
DEA
FBI
UMS
Issue the glock

The ones I know dont are the USSS uniform and air marshal get a sig, US park Police gets HK
I do know also that the Coast Gaurd does not use Glock either it depends on you duty station some coasties get sigs, barettas or HK....
Marine corps uses Baretta still right? not sure on the other 3 branches of service

DMG
02-25-2012, 01:52 PM
Steve, you can come to the range some time and try a bunch of different pistols with me. I'll let you know next time we are going.

Azzy
02-26-2012, 12:07 AM
if I might chime in on training, there are lots of clubs that do NRA basic training, and also host others. Fire Institute, Low Speed High Drag, Grey Group, Vickers... look into them. I know they have all run classes at my club (Pitcaren-Monroeville Sportsman's Club).

And fine a range that will let you shoot for different positions, because if you have the time to take the appropriate stance when you need to use that thing, you probably either dont really need to use it, or wont be able to do much if your world goes just a tad askew. Thats why I drive all the way out to PMSC, no mag limits, practical 180 degree shooting bays, and a full indoor and outdoor range setup.

JeepSteeler
02-26-2012, 08:45 AM
Ruger is an excellent weapon much like many other brands and models being discussed here.

I think the point is you don't see many manufactuers torture testing sucessfully their products like the glock. I have seen other weapons used in comparision torture tests and they haven't faired well like HoodRn said. Actually when the looking at full destruction test the glock usual escapes without injuring the shooter leaving you to fight off an assailant after the unlikley event of a full Kb!

As for weapons-

VSP uses sig Sauer
a majority of surrounding local LE/munipalities where I was used glock

Federal ageneices (and there are plenty where I was- like freaking alpabit soup)-
DEA
FBI
UMS
Issue the glock

The ones I know dont are the USSS uniform and air marshal get a sig, US park Police gets HK
I do know also that the Coast Gaurd does not use Glock either it depends on you duty station some coasties get sigs, barettas or HK....
Marine corps uses Baretta still right? not sure on the other 3 branches of service

I think you are right, the USMC still dishes out the Beretta, I'll ask a buddy. The VA (Dept Veterans Affairs) police also still carry the Beretta as standard issue.

funnyguy595
02-26-2012, 08:59 AM
Thank you for all of your comments, I greatly appriciate it. I will let you all know what I decided on.

brooks294x4
02-26-2012, 08:56 PM
i carry a Ruger SR9C and so far i like it. only put about 125 rounds through it and no problems. 2010 pistol of the year, 17 round mag, very well balanced.

i would shoot as many pistols as you can before ya make a decision.

The_War_Wagon
02-26-2012, 09:26 PM
OK... you want an autopistol, but how much pistol experience do you actually have? :102: I've loved the Desert Eagle .50, ever since I saw Arnie use one in "Last Action Hero." Problem is, my wedding band is a size 11 1/4 - Arnie's is - I suspect - somewhere north of 16. Bigger hands, make the Desert Eagle more contollable - ergo, I don't use one.

I'd suggest for starters, you either try a nice K-frame revolver in .38 (wadcutters make for CHEAP practice!), or, a Ruger Mk.II in .22LR (even CHEAPER practice). You need to work on hand/eye coordination, breathing control, and trigger discipline - all of which will be considerably easier with milder ammo.

Once you're comfortable with basic firearm handling skills (feel free to seek out some help in those matters - since I'm about 3 miles away from you in here in the South Hills, let me suggest - http://www.m4carbine.net/forumdisplay.php?f=136. I've done some training, and got mentoring through members here. I've been shooting since my Boy Scout days, and owned handguns/larger caliber rifles since the the early '90's, and I've probably learned more among these guys since '09, than I had in the previous 25 years combined!), look to either shoot with someone who owns the type/caliber firearm you're interested, or try the rentals at someplace like Anthony Arms. They ain't cheap, but a rented firearm is you don't like, is a LOT cheaper than a PURCHASED firearm you don't like, and end up selling for a loss!

Act SOONER, rather than LATER. This being an election year, Lord only knows what we'll be stuck with come November. Better prepared, than SOL! :089:

97V10MN
02-26-2012, 09:29 PM
i carry a Ruger SR9C and so far i like it. only put about 125 rounds through it and no problems. 2010 pistol of the year, 17 round mag, very well balanced.

i would shoot as many pistols as you can before ya make a decision. x2, a friend of mine and myself both have matching SR9Cs with Crimson Trace lazers, they are amazing to shoot, they fit my hand perfectly and it doesn't cost an arm and a leg to shoot it.

Azzy
02-26-2012, 09:51 PM
I'd suggest for starters, you either try a nice K-frame revolver in .38 (wadcutters make for CHEAP practice!),

I gotta disagree. Shooting a small framed revolver is not a beginner skill set. The recoil and noise will do much to induce a flinch. Or poor grip. And most have crappy sights... Now the MKII idea, now thats a really good way to start out. 22lr should be the place to start, learning breathing, trigger control, pushing the front sight onto the target...

Worst thing I ever did was buy a revolver first thinking it was a simpler gun. Having a .357 as a beginner gun, even shooting .38s only brought me bad habits that took almost a decade to learn how to not do.

HoodRN
02-26-2012, 11:41 PM
I gotta disagree. Shooting a small framed revolver is not a beginner skill set. The recoil and noise will do much to induce a flinch. Or poor grip. And most have crappy sights... Now the MKII idea, now thats a really good way to start out. 22lr should be the place to start, learning breathing, trigger control, pushing the front sight onto the target...

Worst thing I ever did was buy a revolver first thinking it was a simpler gun. Having a .357 as a beginner gun, even shooting .38s only brought me bad habits that took almost a decade to learn how to not do.

K-frame Smith is not a small frame revolver. The J-frame is the small frame, the N-frame and X-frames are larger (left the L out). A K-frame Smith is an excellent choice for a first handgun, especially shooting standard velocity .38s. I carried a K-frame Smith .357 on the job for 16 years. It worked very well for me, in fact, it's why I'm still here.

EddyB
02-27-2012, 03:19 AM
.380 and 9mm are nice affordable calibers to shoot and train. .40 and .45 are expensive even with target rounds. 9mm and .380 are also easier to conceal from the realative smaller sizes. ***.40 is cheaper than .380.***

Keep in mind- shooting isn't something you do twice a year and say thats good enough now and put the gun in the locker or your CC holster. You should go regularly and train for the fight of your life- when/if you will need it you need to be second nature putting lead down range. So a 9mm is a good affordable cal. not to break the bank in training. If you are good a well place double tap to the chest and a single to the head with a 9mm will stop anyone in their tracks- that is IF you get the 9mm in the head.

The main reason LE went away from 9mm across the country is that a 9mm round in some cases didn't have enough stopping power. There are actual documentated cases of LEO's getting 2 rounds in to an assaliant only to have them keep coming. The general rule of thumb was/is that one round of .45 ACP = 2 rounds of 9mm in regards to stopping power. So .45 is pretty much the standard LE issue caliber. Keep that in mind also when selecting a caliber not knocking on 9mm or .380 at all just stating the facts. *** There aren't too many departments that carry .45. Most carry .40 these days. For example, Pgh PD carries The Glock in either the 9mm or .40, Allegheny County Police (a friend works undercover for them and carries a .40 cal Glock subcompact) and Mt. Lebanon carry .40 cal Sig Sauers, Bethel Park PD carries Glock .40 cal. Bellvue used to have the choice between a .45 and a .357 magnum, not sure if this has changed or not since they have gotten a new chief. PSP carry .45 GAP cal Glocks. ***

I will go to the ends of the earth and say find what suits you best as caliber goes but don't go cheap. Go with something proven and field tested, reliable, safe, and can take abuse.

I perfer glock, its the benchmark and nearly a LE standard- so I am acustom to it, it is simple 4 parts less magazine to dissassemble, its reliable as hell run it over, abuse it, get it dirty, there are plenty of stories of how well the Glock holds up to abuse and is one of the man reasons nearly all federal agencies and many of the LE departments in the contry use Glock.

I want a gun that I have 0 doubt will work when I pull it, even if I abused or neglected it, if in a struggle it abused, there is no bar/lever saftey on a glock, the secondary trigger and then whammo. So in a fight for yoru life if someone is trying to disarm you there isn't anything to worry about getting set to "safety on"

... I am sure many of the other sidearms mentioned are great guns. I carry a .40 glock model 22 full frame- it is a great gun not alot of kick back but an awfull CC piece- its big, its bulky, I want to save up for a Glock model 26 9 mm as a better CC piece.


My responses in bold.
I pretty much agree with the rest.

To the OP, the most important thing is that you are comfortable with what you shoot. While there is nothing wrong with the Rugers that several people on here have recommended, getting one based on their recommendation alone is not a good idea.

If you plan on carrying it, make sure that is taken into consideration when shopping around. Something heavy that you just don't feel like lugging around unless you are going to a dangerous part of town is not the way to go IMHO. Bad things happen everywhere and don't consult your schedule.

You have a PM.

JeepSteeler
02-27-2012, 09:46 AM
i carry a Ruger SR9C and so far i like it. only put about 125 rounds through it and no problems. 2010 pistol of the year, 17 round mag, very well balanced.

i would shoot as many pistols as you can before ya make a decision.

I think you guys just pushed me over the edge to go get the SR9C sooner than later. Dang good looking gun. Slide seemed a little stiff in the shop but I'm heard it loosens up a little over time.

The K Frame S&W .38 Special was my first handgun. Shooting .38's was cheap and it was easy to learn on, but by no means is it a small framed gun, just like HoodRN said. The thing is effing heavy. Accurate, simple, well made gun and you can pack .357's in it if you want. Great beginner gun IMHO. I didn't really like carrying it concealed though.

Azzy
02-27-2012, 02:04 PM
K-frame Smith is not a small frame revolver. The J-frame is the small frame, the N-frame and X-frames are larger (left the L out). A K-frame Smith is an excellent choice for a first handgun, especially shooting standard velocity .38s. I carried a K-frame Smith .357 on the job for 16 years. It worked very well for me, in fact, it's why I'm still here.

When most people go to look at a .38, they are looking at J-frames. Even with a KFrame, reloading, recoil management, grip, all those take a bit longer to master. Unless you dont have the hand strength to pull back a slide (and even then, its usually a matter of technique), I would stick to a medium frame auto like a glock, M&P, XD, or the ruger that he decided on.

And even then... its all about how that thing points naturally in your hand. I know for a fact that a glock auto in my hands points just a hair high when naturally bringing it to eye level. A sig 226 points dead center on. An XD, points a bit off in odd ways.

Its all about the hand and the eye. But I see to many people making the mistake of getting a revolver for a first gun. There are reasons to do so, but I dont think they are common reasons, and usually not great reasons either.

joshs1ofakindxj
02-27-2012, 02:19 PM
Start with a heavy purse for self defense. Learn to manage the follow through of the swing and the recoil. It's all in the hips.

MemorEsto
02-27-2012, 02:44 PM
I think you guys just pushed me over the edge to go get the SR9C sooner than later. Dang good looking gun. Slide seemed a little stiff in the shop but I'm heard it loosens up a little over time.

.
I have the SR40 and love it. Just an FYI the SR40c is about $100 cheaper than the 9. Although. Ammo runs more on the 40

HoodRN
02-27-2012, 05:21 PM
Start with a heavy purse for self defense. Learn to manage the follow through of the swing and the recoil. It's all in the hips.

This :)

shooter207
03-01-2012, 05:11 PM
The best gun to have is the one that you have with you.
Lots of bad guys were made good with a round nose 38 special.
If I had a choice mine would be a .45.
If you don't plan to spend alot of time and money breaking in and practicing drills with a semi automatic, buy a double action revolver. Stupid simple, rugged and reliable.

Azzy
03-01-2012, 07:02 PM
No, you have to practice more with a revolver, becasue of sharp recoil, slow reloading. And if you arent buying some $2000 hotrod 1911, there isnt much of a breakin period on any modern striker fired pistol.

To each their own I guess. I just have yet to find a shooter who didnt develop bad habits and a flinch from shooting a revolver of a higher caliber than .22 as their first gun.

HoodRN
03-01-2012, 07:28 PM
No, you have to practice more with a revolver, becasue of sharp recoil, slow reloading. And if you arent buying some $2000 hotrod 1911, there isnt much of a breakin period on any modern striker fired pistol.

To each their own I guess. I just have yet to find a shooter who didnt develop bad habits and a flinch from shooting a revolver of a higher caliber than .22 as their first gun.

Have you spent much time actually using a revolver? A four inch medium frame revolver is probably the best first handgun for a novice. They are simple to operate, rugged, and safe. You can use anything from full-power .357 magnums to .38 wadcutters depending on the skill of the shooter, or the mission at hand. You don't need to worry about magazine malfunctions. Anyone who thinks a revolver is slow to load never saw Jerry Miculek load one. I carry a "modern" striker-fired handgun daily, not because I prefer it, but because it's what my agency issues. Prior to that, I carried a .357 magnum revolver on the job for 15 years. That inaccurate, slow-to-load antiquated boat anchor brought me home to my family on two occasions. To each their own, but I still think that a good .357 magnum revolver (med. frame) is an extremely versatile handgun and a great choice for a first handgun.

ridgerunner97
03-01-2012, 08:28 PM
^ You just plain can't beat a good double action wheelgun...

Azzy
03-02-2012, 12:10 AM
Have you spent much time actually using a revolver? A four inch medium frame revolver is probably the best first handgun for a novice. They are simple to operate, rugged, and safe. You can use anything from full-power .357 magnums to .38 wadcutters depending on the skill of the shooter, or the mission at hand. You don't need to worry about magazine malfunctions. Anyone who thinks a revolver is slow to load never saw Jerry Miculek load one. I carry a "modern" striker-fired handgun daily, not because I prefer it, but because it's what my agency issues. Prior to that, I carried a .357 magnum revolver on the job for 15 years. That inaccurate, slow-to-load antiquated boat anchor brought me home to my family on two occasions. To each their own, but I still think that a good .357 magnum revolver (med. frame) is an extremely versatile handgun and a great choice for a first handgun.

Ive owned a few, and shot more. My first gun was a .357 Mag Ruger. And I dont know about you, but find me one person in a hundred that is 1/8th as fast as Jerry Miculek, who used a VERY highly customized rig and moon clips. Not your average wheelgun.

Facts are fact. Revolvers have more felt recoil and muzzle rise. They are heavier, and hold less ammo. The trigger weight on most anything that is not a competition or show gun is much higher than any stock semi. (Which is one of the reasons NYC cops cant shoot worth a damn, because they have 12-15lb trigger Glocks to mimic the .38s they used to carry). Plus, other than some oddball large frame guns, and some newer medium framed guns (like the .327 mag Ruger) you got 5 or 6 shots. Great, until you realize you need 8. Or 9. Because your second shot was 12in higher on the target and your 3rd was somewhere down the block, because adrenaline kicks in and that trigger starts pulling and the recoil keeps going.

Or, you have a Rhino, and you just have to worry about the trigger mech jamming up on the oddball disconnector.

Or you have a Mateba and most of that argument is moot, but you are carrying the equivalent of a living dodo bird.

Revolvers make fine guns, but somewhere along the line the tech and ergonomics, and the reliability, was much outpaced by modern machining. And ive seen revolvers lock up, come from the factory with issues, and in a few cases 944 mag rugers) shoot the barrel off. That might be interesting to have happen in a gunfight, but ii would leave it to the moves.

And if you haven't put a box or two into that pistol and tested out those magazines, you probably havent practiced enough to be carrying it. Revolver or autoloader. (I am of the belief that you should endeavor to shoot 1000 rnds a year of your carry caliber.)

My point is.. revolvers are not as easy to be proficient with as an autoloader.

JeepSteeler
03-02-2012, 02:08 PM
Have you spent much time actually using a revolver? A four inch medium frame revolver is probably the best first handgun for a novice. They are simple to operate, rugged, and safe. You can use anything from full-power .357 magnums to .38 wadcutters depending on the skill of the shooter, or the mission at hand. You don't need to worry about magazine malfunctions. Anyone who thinks a revolver is slow to load never saw Jerry Miculek load one. I carry a "modern" striker-fired handgun daily, not because I prefer it, but because it's what my agency issues. Prior to that, I carried a .357 magnum revolver on the job for 15 years. That inaccurate, slow-to-load antiquated boat anchor brought me home to my family on two occasions. To each their own, but I still think that a good .357 magnum revolver (med. frame) is an extremely versatile handgun and a great choice for a first handgun.

FWIW I agree with this point. I find my .38 Special to be quite accurate, moreso than my autos with most factory loads. Simple design, easy to clean/maintain, reliable. I've never had my .38 jam or even a FTF that I remember. All of my autos have stovepiped or FTF/FTE at some point or another. Cock the hammer and the trigger pull is quite light on the .38. Even with DA, the trigger is about on par with my Sigma (which could be seen as a knock on the Sigma rather than a plus for the wheelie, I know).

Don't get me wrong, I'm a huge fan of auto's and that's what I carry. But a lot of people that have tried shooting for the first time when I'm around seem less intimidated by the .38 revolver than an auto when shooting, they can see how it all works I guess. To blanket dismiss a revolver as a good first gun doesn't really seem logical to me - that's strictly my opinion and I'm not trying to rip on anyone who thinks otherwise. And hopefully 6 shots is plenty to get you out of a bad situation, provided you train as you should.

PatF10
03-02-2012, 02:15 PM
nowhere near my first but i just orderd a walther pps in .40 cal, well see how she does.

As far as a first gun, you get something quality, revolver or auto, and some good tips, training you should be fine. Practice is key