Tried to buy a gun or guns today.

[DixieJeeper]

Had some money stashed away from some side work. Went to 3 local small business gun shops and all for not. 2 weren't open and one didn't have anything I wanted (read as in the specific models I was shopping or their competition) Sorta dispointed

Had 1500.00 and what I though was going to be a red letter day in firearms purchasing was reduced to a bunch of wasted gas and empty hands.

I was/am shopping Keltec Pf9 and a Glock 27 for a better CC gun. I know the 27 is 40 SW and the Keltec is 9mm.. but the prices and sizes are more comparable in the subcompact range.

I figured dropping 500-600 on a glock or a bit cheaper 350-400 on the Keltec would leave me with easily enough to pick up a bushmaster 223 but alas.. no dice.

Well I guess I will sleep on it another night and see what I come up with. Oh and the best is I was trying to avoid going tot he big box stores for my purchases following my cabelas experence... Gander mountain had eveything I wanted to look at in stock- called when I got home.

[justin'sbig7]

Did you go to sportsmans supply in butler?

[Azzy]

Contact John at http://firearmtransfers.net/

He can get you what you need if no ocal shop has it. Usually.

[DixieJeeper]

No I didn't went through a few on the where to buy thread though.. some I didn't make it to other I did. I was planning on going to Gander Moutain tomorrow but you think Sportsmans better pricing/service?

About the same distance from me to GM or Sportsmans.

[chain]

Check out the Taurus 709 Slim and see what you think. I sold my PF9 in favor of one of these and am happy I did.

[DixieJeeper]

Will do.. I have Ferrari tastes with a non existent budget so Ill take that into consideration thanks!

[justin'sbig7]

Sportsmans has a large inventory and iirc the prices are usually a lil better than the big box retail stores.

[DixieJeeper]

Thanks.. looks like they have a terrific price on flat top 223 bushmasters 680 or so... if I go with a cheaper CC gun like a keltec or a taurus not a glock I might be able to swing two guns.

[The_War_Wagon]

I was just at Gander Mountain yesterday, THINKIN' about another 1911 (they HAVE a used Colt 70 series set up for competition shooting. No trophy by any measn, but a nice 70 SERIES, for $650!). The only thing new in 1911's they have are Kimbers, and they're overpriced.

I wouldn't buy a Shrubmaster even as just a truck gun - splurge a little more, and get the Colt. At least you know it WORKS out of the box!

[DixieJeeper]

I am still on the fence on what to buy...

as far being a 'prepper' I really am leanning towards a .22 LR henry lever action, a Ruger 10/22, or an AR7 (which is nice as it would fit in a go bag or in the comparment under my seats int he truck) .22 is higly affordable to shoot and stock pile

I do however want to get a longer range rifle and for my money a bushmaster 223 flat top at 600 and some change is the way to go.


What I do know I def. will be in shopping the G26 and G27 vs. PF9 vs. Taurus Slim 9mm. Although a fan of my hipoint 40SW carbine- they make a very affordable C9 compact its larger and wider that the glock at even 175.00 its out of the equation. I am leaning towards the larger G27 as I alread have a G22 in 40SW and could interchange mags and again as a prepper it would mean lower $$ between 3 guns I would only have to stock 40SW

The way I figure I should be able to scrounge 200 and some change up for a 10/22 AR7 or .22LR henry sooner rather than later... scrounging up 600-800 for a Bushmaster.. not sure thats going to happen as easy.

Well I think I will head out tomorrow for some more shopping perhaps maybe Ill even handle some guns tomorrow lol. But I likley won't know if I am coming home with until I am done.

[JeepSteeler]

Sportsmans has a large inventory and iirc the prices are usually a lil better than the big box retail stores.

Agreed - definitely worth a visit. Pretty much my first stop every time I am looking for a new gun these days. Good inventory, good guys working there who can be a little gruff at times but know their stuff. I've found their prices to be very competitive and like Justin said usually a little lower.

From Cranberry only maybe 20-25 minute ride.

[The_War_Wagon]

I do however want to get a longer range rifle and for my money a bushmaster 223 flat top at 600 and some change is the way to go.

You'll spend TWICE that much getting it up to code. :088: Buy ONCE, buy RIGHT. Get the Colt.

OR... get an AK. Even a 5.45x39 variant, leaves you a couple hundred left to buy ammo, and 5.45x39 is STILL the cheapest rifle ammo out there. Bing "Shrubmaster," "Bushamster," & "Bushmaster," and see what comes back... :oops:

[tjblair]

Agreed - definitely worth a visit. Pretty much my first stop every time I am looking for a new gun these days. Good inventory, good guys working there who can be a little gruff at times but know their stuff. I've found their prices to be very competitive and like Justin said usually a little lower.

From Cranberry only maybe 20-25 minute ride.
Agreed we were just there the other day. picked up a Sig Sauer p238 for the soon to be wifey.

[DMG]

Take look at the S&W Shield. Very compact in 9 or 40. I want one. I would take the Shield or the Glock 26/27 over the Keltec by a wide margin. The Keltec has a trigger pull like a staplegun.

[joshs1ofakindxj]

I would say build a decent AR yourself but you will have a hard time finding a cheap upper assembly right now. JSE surplus, my usual go-to, is sold out of just about everything and a lot of places don't have uppers.

There is a lot of speculation that the surplus supply of 5.45x39 will dry up soon, but I don't know how much of that is true.

There is no end to the surplus 7.62x39 unless Oblahblah gets relected and goes to town on imported fun things.

And yea, I hear Bushmasters out of the box need some tinkering.

I'm a big fan of 7.62x39 toys. I use them A LOT more than anything else. They are low maintenance, reliable, and accurate ENOUGH. Moment of bad guy at 300 yards is acceptable to me. You can get a WASR 10/63 double stack at Dunham's when they're on sale for about $450, or you can get a single stack for probably $350 and you or me can mill it out with a burr bit in an air grinder in about 15 minutes and make it a double stack. I've done a few conversions for myself and others. It's easy.

Century Arms Disclaimer: I have handled A LOT of Century products. I would estimate 20% have a small issue like a loose mag well or a canted front sight. Those are easily seen at buying time and passed on. Only about 5% have had a deal breaker. I worked on one with a poorly installed front trunnion, causing binding in the action, FTE, and even a few out of battery discharges! Yikes. That one was built on a Friday afternoon or a Monday morning for sure. This wasn't identified until after buying and testing at the range, BUT Centruy made it right and exchanged the rifle with no problems, so rest assured, buying Century is fine. I would never buy another one of their pump shotguns, but I'll bring home their AK based variants all day of they look good and the action is smooth with no evidence of severe rubs.

Steel mags are cheap, ammo is affordable (buy 500 rounds at a time for about $125) so I hope you give it some thought.

War Wagon, since you seem pretty versed in AR's, what do you think of my budget build?

DSA ZM4 factory blem lower
Timberwolf Tactical Stainless LPK
Tapco T6 collapsable stock and buffer tube
DSA flat top upper with M4 feed ramps
RRA BCG
BCM Medium Gunfighter Latch
YHM toothed flash hider
Low profile rail gas block
Made in USA 16" Bull Dog Barrel 1:9" twist I think
Standard M4 Hand guards
BSA big ole red dot
Magpul BUIS front and rear

For mags I have a mix of USGI steel mags, PMAGs, and Isreali surplus Orlite mags (I bought about 40 of them for $1 each). Some of the Orlite's went right in the garbage and the rest are just for beating up on the range.

It shoots steel or brass cased ammo, and the only issue I ever had was one FTE with a brass round. The bolt head seemed to get wedged in the locking lugs like the casing of the round was not correctly engaged in the bolt face or something. Required a complete field strip and some coercion to free the bolt and eject. Never happened again.

I put all of that together, including mags and optics, about 2 years ago for $750.

[Meeke]

x2 on Josh milling out the WASR 10 Single Stack. Mine works flawlessly; thanks again Josh!

Dixie- Take a look at the Ruger LC9 (9mm). I have one and I really like it, sold a g27 to buy one of these. The trigger pull is super long, but you get used to it. Only downside I've seen so far is the holster choices are slim, but getting better.

[DMG]

Looking at AKs, the Saiga AKs are pretty awesome weapons. I have a modded 7.62x39 with a Trijicon Reflex on it. I have owned a bunch of ARs and a FAL and the Saiga will be in my hands if the SHTF.

[joshs1ofakindxj]

x2 on Josh milling out the WASR 10 Single Stack. Mine works flawlessly; thanks again Josh!

My pleasure!


I have owned a bunch of ARs and a FAL and the Saiga will be in my hands if the SHTF.

Quoted for thruth.

A FAL or CETME makes a great fixed position weapon but humping one around is a lot of work. I'm glad my CETME has a bayonet so I can stick it in the ground and lean on it when I get tired of holding it.

I haven't owned a Saiga rifle myself, but I played with a Saiga 12ga for a day and fell in love. If I wasn't saving for other things, I would be picking one up asap. They're incredable. Nothing like being next to one when it is dumping 10 shells of 3" magnum turkey loads into a minivan. My lord the power. That is the best way to turn money into noise, other than tannerite. And now they're making golf ball launchers for them!

Man, I love golf ball launchers.

[DixieJeeper]

Ended up going to John Brown's in Rochester. They were very helpful folks nothing more than guns, no flash, no BS, the store front was a bit run down and soe was the store but they had PLENTY to shop around from versus what I ran into the other day.

I looked at subcompacts in 9mm and 40 cal from;

Taurus
Ruger (2)
Glock (2)
SW
Keltec (2)

they had a good buy on a G27 used for 400 and some change but really when you compared the double stack of a glock to anything else thats where the real bulk comes from concealed.

I purchased a Keltec P11 9mm (10+1) although the Pf9 was a slighlty thinner it was a bit too small for my hand to comfortably support the grib without swallowing the hole tugger guard.
The Keltec was 220.00 with 1 mag.

I shopped around a bit while the clerk called my background check in.... of course I found something else to buy I went ahead and picked up a DPMS AR15 flat top no sights fresh off the truck for 600.00

Yea I know there are some the have concerens of DMPS and Bushmaster vs. Colt and others... but for the price and being an occasionaly shooter I am pretty happy that I left the gun store without putting anything on plastic and cash in my wallet still. I have enough to go out and buy optics some other time if I wanted.

I thought the guys and gals at John Brown Arms were friendly, poliete, and knowledgable too. I had my daughter with me who was well behavied in the store and certainly not the normal fixture in a guns store but they rolled with it. In fact after the sale they even carried the guns and ammo out to the truck for me. I will def. be going back.

[Wrecker]

I had my son with me when I bought my Kimber there. They tried to sell him AR in 22lr. Nice people and good service. But the store its self is straight out of the Deer Hunter.

[Azzy]

Ive had great results with a JSE upper... complete for $325 on sale, shipped, with magpul furniture and YHM brakes.

http://www.jsesurplus.com/custom223.aspx

On a good day with Hornady TAP, I get dime sized groups.

[DixieJeeper]

I had my son with me when I bought my Kimber there. They tried to sell him AR in 22lr. Nice people and good service. But the store its self is straight out of the Deer Hunter.

I agree- nice folks, plenty of selection and inventory. Most items they had 4 or 5 in.. including most AR models. However, the store front and sales floor are very dated and worn out. Actually its not a bad lay out in general.

However, if they would just get a carpenter and build some stock lumber MDF shelving with peg board sides around the entire permieter of the sales floor, then put a bunch of cases in the center of the store and make that the slaes counter it would flow better. I would also put some wall mounted desks and have a designated prep station and put a bit more effort in the window displays it would be money. They have plenty of inventory and plenty of cases for show but its relaly poorly laid out and displayed.

I found it hard to window shop as just about every counter top have a rifle, gun, or long gun on it waiting repairs or modifications, or initial cleaning and oiling PLUS the only place to fill out paper work was on the same display cases... they have plenty of sq ft. just need to use it better When I was there for 45 min it was packed and everyone was buying.

[ridgerunner97]

^ Sounds like Reese's supply in Smithfield LOL guns everywhere and an uneven wooden floor and a dog in the corner :)

[The_War_Wagon]

War Wagon, since you seem pretty versed in AR's, what do you think of my budget build?

DSA ZM4 factory blem lower - I'm using one of their A3 flattop uppers in my most recent build, and it ran great first (and only) time at the range so far, last month. I've bought BCM blemished lowers before with no problems at all - great way to save $50 - $75, too!

Timberwolf Tactical Stainless LPK - I'm not familiar with their products, but I looked this up, and it looks GTG. Always watch your spring installs. 75% of "trigger problems" I'ver seen from home built lowers, is springs installed backwards! :oops:

Tapco T6 collapsable stock and buffer tube - You can get BY with a 6160 tube, but if you get a really BAD FTE, and go to mortar the rifle to try & jar it free, DON'T act surprised if your tube bends/breaks. :087: Tapco makes some nice aftermarket stuff for AK's, but their AR quality is not up to snuff with Magpul or Vltor, sad to say.

DSA flat top upper with M4 feed ramps - GTG.

RRA BCG - I'd of gone Palmetto State Armory premium BCG at a minimum. I'm running one in my latest build, as I got it cheaper than the BCM f/a BCG I'm running in my other rifles. I'd look for an upgrade there eventually.

BCM Medium Gunfighter Latch - GTG

YHM toothed flash hider - GTG

Low profile rail gas block - who made it?

Made in USA 16" Bull Dog Barrel 1:9" twist I think - their website url no longer works - that's a BAD sign. A GOOD barrel with a more optimal 1: 7 twist rate will allow you to handle heavier bullets, and will likely degrade less over time, with better steel, chroming, & QC methods

Standard M4 Hand guards - nothing wrong there. Save money, until you KNOW what you like, and what you want.

BSA big ole red dot - BSA is in the same league as Barska/Leapers/UTG/NcStar, and a few others, on the UN-reliable scale. 5.56 recoil can tear the reticleapart within a few rounds sometimes. Look for used Aimpoint Comp M2's (the Aimpoint Pro is knocking a lot of M2/ML2 & M3/ML3's onto the market, at VERY reasonable prices - check your used equipment boards on any firearms forums you belong to for killer deals!) and EOtechs (particulaly 512/517 models, as the XP3 is knocking a lot of THOSE into the marketplace), and you'll be MUCH better served.

Magpul BUIS front and rear - I run Tros myself, but have runa Magpul in the past - they're very good, and the Gen 2 are even better!

For mags I have a mix of USGI steel mags, PMAGs, and Isreali surplus Orlite mags (I bought about 40 of them for $1 each). Some of the Orlite's went right in the garbage and the rest are just for beating up on the range.

I have a couple of Orlites I still use for range mags myself - GI and PMags will serve you just fine though.

It shoots steel or brass cased ammo, and the only issue I ever had was one FTE with a brass round. The bolt head seemed to get wedged in the locking lugs like the casing of the round was not correctly engaged in the bolt face or something. Required a complete field strip and some coercion to free the bolt and eject. Never happened again.

Could've just been a deformed case, but keep in mind also - shooting brass, AFTER shooting a lot of steel case, with no cleaning in-between, will also lead to jams/FTE/FTF issues, because of the residue steel case leaves behind.

I put all of that together, including mags and optics, about 2 years ago for $750.

With the Obamination Fear Factor rising, count on prices ONLY going up, between now & election day. :-?

[joshs1ofakindxj]

With the Obamination Fear Factor rising, count on prices ONLY going up, between now & election day. :-?

Thanks for your thoughts. I was wondering about that barrel myself. It shoots straight, so I guess if I wear it out faster than a name brand barrel I'll just have to pat myself on the back and find a good replacement.

I know I went cheap on the optics and buis, that was the goal of the build. Get it running on a college student budget. Now that I'm past that I want to look for a decent replacement for at least the red dot.

Agreed, butt stock/buffer tube and the BCG are the other weak points.

[jim91303]

Ace firearms on 19 in Washington pa is a good place. They have a huge invatory

[JeepSteeler]

Take look at the S&W Shield. Very compact in 9 or 40. I want one. I would take the Shield or the Glock 26/27 over the Keltec by a wide margin. The Keltec has a trigger pull like a staplegun.

I got the email from S&W about the new Shield the other day. Instantly wanted it after checking it out online. I haven't seen in person or handled one yet but likely will add it to the arsenal in the next year or so.

[HoodRN]

Thanks for your thoughts. I was wondering about that barrel myself. It shoots straight, so I guess if I wear it out faster than a name brand barrel I'll just have to pat myself on the back and find a good replacement.

I know I went cheap on the optics and buis, that was the goal of the build. Get it running on a college student budget. Now that I'm past that I want to look for a decent replacement for at least the red dot.

Agreed, butt stock/buffer tube and the BCG are the other weak points.

For farting around at the range, most, if not all, AR-15s will do a fine job. There are a TON of condominium commandos on the web that obsess over specs on rifle builds that probably are lucky to fire a few hundred rounds per year. I owned a dreaded Bushmaster M4 for years, and ran just fine. I used it at work, ran it in classes, and plinked with it. No problems at all. Ever. My ARs now are a Colt 6920 and a BCM. I have them because I got the LEO price on the Colt (cheap), and traded an 1187 Police Model 12 gauge for the BCM. Both are supposed to be way better than my old Bushmaster, I see no difference. If you want to read about failures of the "mil-spec" M4 carbine, google the "US Naval Institute, Battle of Wanat". It's an eye opener.

[DixieJeeper]

My pleasure!



Quoted for thruth.

......A FAL or CETME makes a great fixed position weapon but humping one around is a lot of work. I'm glad my CETME has a bayonet so I can stick it in the ground and lean on it when I get tired of holding it.

.........

As long as we are talking fixed position or a hardened target with a gun attached... a browning .50 in a machine gun nest or mobile in a vehicle is pretty hard to beat.. and if you have nev er watched any of this guy's videos.. jesus grab a beer and some pizza and have a great time. He is my hero.. even if he does have a fake russian accent.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XyoAP10uKTk&feature=related

[joshs1ofakindxj]

^ I catch his videos on ENDO. Entertaining when he isn't talking.

[commando72]

Went to both Cabela's and Ace in Washignton today. I may be going back to Ace for a shotgun, looked at several today. Saga/Benelli/Remmington- All semi-auto tactical style. Might be a self-bought birthday gift in there!

[DixieJeeper]

^ I catch his videos on ENDO. Entertaining when he isn't talking.

The fake russian accent is sometimes entertaining like his trip to Mcdonalds in.. also when he starts laughing and almost lets his real voice in.... I think its a gimick to get people to talk or a thin vail to somewhat hide where he is in the US.

[The_War_Wagon]

Went to both Cabela's and Ace in Washignton today. I may be going back to Ace for a shotgun, looked at several today. Saga/Benelli/Remmington- All semi-auto tactical style. Might be a self-bought birthday gift in there!

M1 Super 90 for the WIN! :080:


http://i212.photobucket.com/albums/cc305/The_War_Wagon/sling.jpg

[commando72]

M1 Super 90 for the WIN! :080:



Well now, I like that. Just got to find the budget, close but not quite ready. A trip to the scrap yard in a week or two should net the needed funding.

This is the one I saw, M4...now you added to the pool of choices

http://media.giantbomb.com/uploads/1/13307/1065180-4571261530057.jpg

[DixieJeeper]

Yes and Yes for the double WIN.

[The_War_Wagon]

I lusted after the M1 for TWENTY YEARS... before I FINALLYgot one, in 2010! :icon_pray:

[DixieJeeper]

Whats yoru schedule like on next week as in 1st to 5th... swing by and pick up the optics during the day