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View Full Version : Manual vs auto in a tow rig



13below0
06-18-2012, 05:34 PM
Ok most of us that tow alot are running dirty diesel trucks, lets talk stick shift vs auto pros n cons. I may look into a newer truck and have found a few stick trucks that catch my eye. Now I know everyone wants a cummins with a manual tranny but most of the people that buy these trucks are just stupid kids that got rid of there riced out honda for a truck (sorry Justin) lol is the stick that much better? What about loosing boost if you have to shift up hill, is it a issue or not? The newer trucks are making enough power that I dont think a stock clutch will last very long. So lets hear it. This is not a dodge vs ford vs GM debat. I have drove all of them and have alot of seat time towing with each manufacturer. Just want to know the likes n dislikes of the auto or stick.

justin'sbig7
06-18-2012, 06:01 PM
I went from the duramax/allison to the cummins 6 speed. the allison=strongest auto and only one i would run honestly, dodge and ford are known to need replacements

Pros of the auto (at least what i liked):

-no boost loss when shifting. i get this out of the dodge. If i dont let fully off the pedal though i do not get the boost lag, not talkin powershifting, just the slightest little bit left on the gas keeps it from dumping the boost.

-smoother pull out, backing up. the manual has a bit higher reverse gear than id like and its been a mild annoyance putting the boat in the back building.

thats about it... the dodges are de-tuned with the manual. my truck was rated at 615lbft torque, and the autos are rated at 800. the tq curves however show the 800lbft drops fast and its back to 615. plus what you lose in the slush, I am not sure how much crazy better it is, i never drove an auto dodge, i wouldnt buy an auto dodge till they put an allison in it.

pros of the manual (at least what i like, and i prefer the manual over the allison after having both)

-I can pick what gear i want when i want. the allison was constantly shifting, and it seemed like most people drove 1 mph under where it went ino OD and lockup, it either shifted in and out constantly at 47mph or just kept the TC unlocked. It killed my gas mileage and definitely made the trans temp go up more than i liked. When towing it seemed to never be where I wanted it gear wise to handle the load.

-no friggin trans temp gauge to watch. when it was hot and the AC was on... well forget it, turn the ac off, the trans was getting hot.

Thats really about it. I like a manual for what i use a truck for, as for the idiot kids and their smokestacks... an auto is the way to go for racing, i have no idea why they want a stickshift for douchenozzling.

as for the new trucks, I was not happy with how my truck pulled before i did the tuner and stuff. i have since found out that i have the 3.42 gears (i thought they were 3.73) and thats a good reason why i wasnt too impressed. after the work I did to it it is very impressive even with just the 20 hp tune, and i would venture to say if i would have got the 3.73 gears I wouldnt have ever done anything to it. the DPF regen kinda sucked when it happened but not bad otherwise. I have been towing about 6700lb on the 100hp tune and i am not getting any clutch slippage yet, I do however tend to be easy on the truck. I also average (hand calculated) 19.5 mpg on the 100hp tune.

13below0
06-18-2012, 08:05 PM
I never thought much about the axle gearing. I was actually thinking of 3:55s just to keep the rpm down at cruising speed but may look a bit more into it. I was thinking auto cuase my girlfriend actually drives my truck sometimes so that would be a bonus. Always wanted a hand shaker Im just not sure its for the right reasons lol. Found 3 2010 fords with a manual tranny. It would get deleted and a mini max right out of the gate.

joe_and_jeep
06-18-2012, 08:08 PM
I wouldn't buy a Ford or Dodge auto, I'd buy a Chevy tho.

13below0
06-18-2012, 08:16 PM
Well if your paying I will drive whatever. But if Im making the payments it will more than likely have a blue oval on the front..

RalphDogg
06-18-2012, 08:25 PM
The pro for a stick is slowing down by downshifting, the pro for a automatic is the non shifting and comfy driving stance.

Sloth_Fratelli
06-18-2012, 08:36 PM
as for the idiot kids and their smokestacks... an auto is the way to go for racing, i have no idea why they want a stickshift for douchenozzling.

because in an auto you cant go straight into fourth gear from a stop to roll some badass coal

HoodRN
06-18-2012, 08:55 PM
I've had both manual and automatic transmissions, and both have their pros and cons. We have an auto in our Dodge in case my wife has to get behind the wheel. Our truck is stock, no pressure boxes or any of that stuff. We pull a 27ft. 7,000lb camper, so the 5.9 isn't even breathing hard. The 48RE is holding up just fine, but I don't beat on it. I do prefer towing with the auto, especially backing up hill (most of the NFS campgrounds in the Allegheny National Forest, or good old Ohiopyle SP). My 06 2500 is getting 17 around town with the auto and summer fuel, got 12mpg on 79 towing our camper to Erie and back @ 65mph.

justin'sbig7
06-18-2012, 09:26 PM
I never thought much about the axle gearing. I was actually thinking of 3:55s just to keep the rpm down at cruising speed but may look a bit more into it. I was thinking auto cuase my girlfriend actually drives my truck sometimes so that would be a bonus. Always wanted a hand shaker Im just not sure its for the right reasons lol. Found 3 2010 fords with a manual tranny. It would get deleted and a mini max right out of the gate.

I know youre a blue oval guy, and all brands have their +/-, but i really suggest you look hard at reviews on those engines. ford has had some real problems with the last three generations 6.0, 6.4 and now the 6.7 as well. not bashing, but keep it in mind.

dan58
06-18-2012, 09:55 PM
because in an auto you cant go straight into fourth gear from a stop to roll some badass coal

lol. Bingo! Mine will roll some hellish coal if I'm towing.

I love the ability to pick a gear. Mine's an older beast (02), but it still gets around nicely. The NV5600 granny gear is a real treat for towing too. Niiiiice and easy in those bumpy ass parking lots at RC, etc.

13below0
06-19-2012, 12:16 AM
If you read any forums you can come to the conclusion that there all junk :094: The dually was a 6.0 and we really never had a problem with it. I take care of my junk and most of the issues on the fords is pretty much just a lack of maintance on the newer trucks. I can get the x-plan on any of the big 3 from work and have looked at dodges also. I havent drove a 2011-12 yet. They all have there problems, and there all great until you have to work on them. Im just un sure if its my inner ricer that wants a stick or not.

mxg342
06-19-2012, 07:16 AM
I would have loved to get an auto. The idea of $5k or more in tranny upgrades kept me from getting one though. I ended up with a G56 in my 2005 dodge. When I started boosting power, I needed a clutch. For $1700 I ended up with a South Bend 3250 dual disc. It's all I'm ever going to need.

Turbo lag is a bitch. Does it bother the truck and towing? Not really. The boost recovers fast but it definately falls off to nothing.

2002wranglerX
06-19-2012, 07:22 AM
because in an auto you cant go straight into fourth gear from a stop to roll some badass coal

i hate watching douchebags roll coal... and people wonder why we now have to deal with addatives and regeneration on newer diesels... *sigh*

justin'sbig7
06-19-2012, 08:00 AM
If you read any forums you can come to the conclusion that there all junk :094: The dually was a 6.0 and we really never had a problem with it. I take care of my junk and most of the issues on the fords is pretty much just a lack of maintance on the newer trucks. I can get the x-plan on any of the big 3 from work and have looked at dodges also. I havent drove a 2011-12 yet. They all have there problems, and there all great until you have to work on them. Im just un sure if its my inner ricer that wants a stick or not.

Not talking forums, my friend was a for diesel tech (now in heavy truck repair) when the 6.0s came out they had a lot of lemon law buybacks over the injectors. Then i know of 3 people who had the 6.4 twin turbo and all had big problems within 6k miles. The 6.7 i have only heard rumors on, dont know anyone with one personally.

The cummins 6.7 has headgasket issues when you turn up the boost, it goes back to the pay to play though.

CESCO
06-19-2012, 08:29 AM
diesel or gas, I like towing with the auto but I am one of those guys that does not like standard shift... I have towed with the ford/dodge/chevy autos and never had a problem. The ford and chevy would have more towing miles on them and the fords get retired at around 300k miles and yet have had to replace a trans... we do not do any power adders to the engine so that probably helps out with the longevity. I am pretty sure that all of the newer auto's will downshift while in tow mode when the brakes are applied.

XJchris98
06-19-2012, 08:34 AM
I havent drove a 2011-12 yet.

I'll let you take my 2011 around the block...for the right price on that 30' gooseneck you have for sale :unibrow:


In all seriousness though, I'll agree with Justin in that the Allison would be the only auto I’d want in a diesel. From what I’ve been reading, the new H.O. dodge's are getting decent reviews with the 68RFE's since they upgraded the torque converters to handle the bump in power, but it’s still an auto transmission in a dodge lol.

When I was looking at new trucks, I test drove a new F250 and it seemed like the transmission was hunting for gears WAY too much. Maybe this is the norm with the newer trucks (I’m used to how my XJ shifts and never drove an auto Ram), but I didn’t like it none the less. I can’t add and any +/-'s to the duramax as none of the Chevy/GMC dealers around me never have any on their lot.

If you’re doing 100% highway towing with the truck, I would probably consider the auto (just for the comfort factor/ability for other people to drive). I'm no veteran when it comes to towing either, but I could also see the auto making it easier to maneuver a trailer when trying to park it or fit into a tight space. My truck serves as my DD as well, so I enjoy being able to pick my own gears...especially when driving in town, but I would consider an auto if all I did was tow with it.

If your undecided I would try to drive all of your options in both the stick and auto to see what your most comfortable with.


And as for the kids and their riced out Honda's, I don’t know who they'd be racing with the 6spd. I feel like I’m rowing a damn boat every time I go down the road with mine :nod:

jeepnick
06-19-2012, 08:59 AM
I dd an 11 f250 gasser with the 6.2 auto
It does hunt for gears when I'm towing, hunts worse in tow haul mode
The old Chevy 6.0 gasser I used to tow with never shifted
Ford tows much nicer though with more power

oros35
06-19-2012, 09:01 AM
I've had both in diesel trucks. And towed about the same amount/weight with them. The only reason my chevy has the auto is I really didn't like how the manual drove. Then I drove an allison equiped truck and was sold. It was really about the whole package, they all have to work together to be good. I would pick a manual in an older dodge over auto for the same reason. The package as a whole seemed to fit better.

90% of the time I would pick a manual over auto, but with all the computer controls the auto's have gained alot of ground and I think are pretty equal if not better in some cases than manual.

Azzy
06-19-2012, 10:04 AM
I dont own a truck but, my take on it... the bonus to having an auto over a manual is when you need someone else to move the truck. You have a much smaller pool of people to choose from usually.

BUZZINHALFDOZZEN
06-19-2012, 10:36 AM
I don't really have any turbo lag when I downshift. I just give the throttle a little "blurp" to increase rpm to match the lower gear and it will keep some boost.

Don't have any experience towing with an auto. Good friend of mine has a 6.7 cummins with an auto, he says he misses the manual when he has his pulling truck (8,000 lbs) or tractor (12,000lbs) on the gooseneck. Likes the auto for daily driving tho.

Do the newer fords have an exhaust brake?

oros35
06-19-2012, 11:45 AM
the bonus to having an auto over a manual is when you need someone else to move the truck. You have a much smaller pool of people to choose from usually.
Thats a plus for buying a manual! If your not an experienced enough driver that you can't drive a stick, I don't want you driving my ride!

Deadman 94 xj
06-19-2012, 12:20 PM
I think if you could find an auto that would be reliable and not heat up too much than the consistency would be nice. Overall I like the simplicity of a manual and even if it loses a little boost and takes a while to get up and go, you still know what to expect.

13below0
06-19-2012, 01:04 PM
Xjchris, $3500 and you can come pick it up.

CESCO
06-19-2012, 04:57 PM
-no friggin trans temp gauge to watch. when it was hot and the AC was on... well forget it, turn the ac off, the trans was getting hot.




as for the new trucks, I was not happy with how my truck pulled before i did the tuner and stuff. i have since found out that i have the 3.42 gears (i thought they were 3.73) and thats a good reason why i wasnt too impressed. after the work I did to it it is very impressive even with just the 20 hp tune, and i would venture to say if i would have got the 3.73 gears I wouldnt have ever done anything to it. the DPF regen kinda sucked when it happened but not bad otherwise. I have been towing about 6700lb on the 100hp tune and i am not getting any clutch slippage yet, I do however tend to be easy on the truck. I also average (hand calculated) 19.5 mpg on the 100hp tune.


I have had 2 trucks with the allison, one gasser and the other is a diesel. I liked towing with the gas engine the best.... but in either truck never had a problem with trans temp and in fact the newer truck doesn't have a dedicated gauge for the trans. I will say both trucks were stock so maybe that is why they did not give me any troubles.. same with the fords we tow with and they are the 5.4l, so as long as you don't mind the engine screaming they do ok.


2 questions, didn't you buy the truck new? did the dealer tell you the wrong gear ratio?
is the 19.5mpg while towing?

I only get around 9mpg with mine while towing

CESCO
06-19-2012, 04:58 PM
Xjchris, $3500 and you can come pick it up.

That's a good price!

SirFuego
06-19-2012, 05:27 PM
I don't know how the other transmissions are setup, but the automatic in my Dodge is very predictable -- even in hilly terrain and can pretty much tell it what gear to be in. It's a 5 speed (3 speed w/ 2 OD gears). I can force it into 1 or 2 -- so that has me covered for those gears. I can shut one or both of the OD gears off -- so I can stay in 3rd gear going up a hill on the highway (or of course I can manually downshift into 2 if needed).

I understand the reliability concerns and granted, maybe I don't know any better since I've never towed with a manual -- but it's pretty easy to get in the gear I want. And even if I hit a hill in the wrong gear, I can easily correct that.

IIRC, some of the newer Cummins come with a button on the shifter to manually shift up/down as needed.

Roamin
06-19-2012, 05:32 PM
i had an 08 manual cummins, pulling about 9000lbs. then switched to '11 auto cummins pulling same weight. i preferred the manual pulling. both had the exhaust brake which was extremely nice to have pulling. another benefit of the manual is less brake wear if you downshift properly.

YJBIZ
06-19-2012, 09:15 PM
I am running a 08 F250 Auto... It has no problem with a trailer behind it. I am running with a DPF Delete, cold air intake, and a Spartan tuner. I am currently running with the 210 tow tune which keeps the EGTs down while pulling. The Fords Torque shift transmissions have really impressed me so far.

xj jimmy
06-20-2012, 05:44 PM
auto with big cooler......shifting and having your load physically shift (not because its not secured correctly) its just a pain in the ass.

my .02 cents.

YZEATER
06-21-2012, 06:27 AM
I definitely wanted a manual for towing when i bought my '11 cummins. My previous f350 6.0 was a manual also. It comes down to personal preference. I test drove an auto cummins and didn't like how it shifted. My wife has no ambition to learn to drive a manual so that's something that always has to be thought of. But i know it 100k or so i won't have to rebuild the Automatic. I just need to buy a clutch at 14k miles now because with the programmer turned up it'll slip.

After i bought my truck, being that i bought a new one, i could have got an auto and just traded it in at 100k lile everyone else.

gonecheenin
06-21-2012, 07:39 PM
I severly dislike the auto for towing (or driving in general unless I'm just going out for a sunday cruise like in our auto YJ or offroading) for a few reasons. Some of those reasons have been somewhat solved by the newer autos & their electronics (severe loss of MPG's, searching, soft shifts, heat, severe brake wear), others have not (durability, control, loss of MPG's, more brake wear, power to the wheels)


The main reason I prefer a standard is the control - I absolutely hate my vehicle thinking for me. And I have yet to drive a factory auto (new or old) that was always in the right gear @ the right time, allowed the engine to pull down hard on a hill, crawled through a rough section of road smoothly, or felt as powerfull as it's mechnically connected cousin. Plus, if you buy used vehicles, you have the best chance at finding yourself with an inoperable transmission if you don't rebuild or refresh that used auto asap. Not to say standards never break, but I've never had issues with a manual that came without warning - where as I've been left sitting at more than one red light by a used auto trans that just suddenly decided it simply wasn't going anymore!

As for others being able to drive my standard shift - I've already lost respect for you over that, so like Oros said - stay outta my ride!

The wife "excuse" amuses me as well. When I met Seismik, she said her Dad told her she couldn't drive a standard due to mistakes she made trying to learn while he screamed at her. I told her that's BS & she may wanna at least learn how in case she needed too, because when we moved in together there were 5 vehicles in our driveway & only one was an auto (her's). She took my advice & at least learned how to operate one, this knowledge actually saved my life once even.

Fast forward to today & the standard shift vehicles in our driveway still out number the auto's - only now three are Seismik's (Actually 4 are if you include her '69 auto-stick VW beetle)! And of those three/four, one is her daily driver 5 speed TDI Jetta. :nod:

13below0
06-22-2012, 02:41 PM
Drove a 2010 ford auto yesterday that was a dud. Drove a 2010 6spd dodge today and was not impressed but it was a really nice truck. All you dodge guys running your mouth apparently have not drove a 6.7 ford yet lol it feels like a rocket compared to these other truck i have drove so far. The 6.4 ford was a disappointment, hell i wouldnt give up my old beater 7.3 for that truck.

Super Scout
06-22-2012, 02:50 PM
Any comparison test I have read, I know they are about meaningless. The Duramax has come out on top. Really the auto/manual is a preference. I put over 200.000 miles on my last two trucks and they where both autos never had an issue other than fluid changes. My 96 and 287,000 on the odometer and I pulled with it. My 76 is still ticking at 220,000. Get a temp gauge pay attention and change the fluid there will be no issue. If I could find a 6.0 Chevy gasser with a 5 speed I would buy it in a heartbeat.

justin'sbig7
06-22-2012, 03:15 PM
Drove a 2010 ford auto yesterday that was a dud. Drove a 2010 6spd dodge today and was not impressed but it was a really nice truck. All you dodge guys running your mouth apparently have not drove a 6.7 ford yet lol it feels like a rocket compared to these other truck i have drove so far. The 6.4 ford was a disappointment, hell i wouldnt give up my old beater 7.3 for that truck.
never really "ran my mouth" :flipoff2: the duramax has come out on top of comparisons, but theres reasons other than the most powerful or the most X,Y,Z reason to buy one over the other. and my old dmax truck was more powerful and faster than my dodge before i opened the cummins up.I liked the interior fit and style of the dodge, the cummins is a pretty proven engine and i wanted a manual. if you like the ford go for it. i am not gonna tell you dodge is the best end all be all. theyre all ****in pieces of shit, it just comes down to wich turd stinks least to you.

YZEATER
06-23-2012, 09:05 AM
Any comparison test I have read, I know they are about meaningless. The Duramax has come out on top. Really the auto/manual is a preference. I put over 200.000 miles on my last two trucks and they where both autos never had an issue other than fluid changes. My 96 and 287,000 on the odometer and I pulled with it. My 76 is still ticking at 220,000. Get a temp gauge pay attention and change the fluid there will be no issue. If I could find a 6.0 Chevy gasser with a 5 speed I would buy it in a heartbeat.

your trucks with that many miles, don't have the torque or horsepower of today's trucks.

Super Scout
06-23-2012, 09:18 AM
True but they are different transmissions today as well. 200,000 miles on a 4l80 or 4l60 is not unheard of. That wasn't really the point, just that manual/automatic is a preference thing and well maintained I think they would last plenty long. Esp the new 6l90 or Allison.
Its not like the NV4500 is bullet proof I have seen a few of them crap out at less than 150,000.
Like I said if I could find a 5 speed 6.0 Chevy I would be all over it.

ridgerunner97
06-23-2012, 04:14 PM
^ We almost got to see a NV4500 meet it's death last night LOL

ZJ_5.2LIMITED
07-03-2012, 11:50 AM
we have 12 2012 Chevys with the 6.0 and 4 2012 F series. the f550 and the f350 both have the 6.7 and the brand new for 2012 6 speed. the chevys obv have the allison. i will say that we tow a shit ton with both brands. the trucks are rarely unloaded and in the winter we plow snow all over the burgh with them. the autos are rly nice.. the fords will hold 40 pounds of boost THRU the shift and will pull a dual axle car trailer loaded down with 2 skid loaders to 75 mph in under 12 seconds. the chevys are actually constantly shifting. i chock it up to the torque-less 6.0 but, w/e. 3 of the fords have been in the shop to have a trans replaced with less than 28k miles... 27989, 27890 27450 and the other only has 25k, but itll skip shift from 1st to 4th and then from 5th back down to 1st.

for towing, id want an auto, but that is just me. not loosing boost ever is always gonna be good, youre not wokring the motor twice and using twice the fuel to get back your boost and its a convenience in my eyes.

having said that, my friends 450 hp 5.9 cummins with 6 sp was an absolute blast to drive but its just that... for fun/looks.

DMG
07-03-2012, 05:14 PM
Any comparison test I have read, I know they are about meaningless. The Duramax has come out on top. Really the auto/manual is a preference. I put over 200.000 miles on my last two trucks and they where both autos never had an issue other than fluid changes. My 96 and 287,000 on the odometer and I pulled with it. My 76 is still ticking at 220,000. Get a temp gauge pay attention and change the fluid there will be no issue. If I could find a 6.0 Chevy gasser with a 5 speed I would buy it in a heartbeat.

My 6.0 5 speed crew cab will be for sale soon.

gonecheenin
07-03-2012, 09:28 PM
Any of you 6.0 guys have a tune?

All the towing forums say that's the secret to making the 6.0 a towing beast, and I'm curious if that's true since I'm considering setting one down in my '78 K30 Crew cab.

DMG
07-03-2012, 09:57 PM
I have the bigger flex-fuel injectors and a tune. Definitely made a difference, especially on premium fuel. The auto trucks benefit more from a tune because torque management is usually disabled.

dan58
07-04-2012, 09:39 PM
Any of you 6.0 guys have a tune?

All the towing forums say that's the secret to making the 6.0 a towing beast, and I'm curious if that's true since I'm considering setting one down in my '78 K30 Crew cab.

I have a tune on my LQ9 6.0. :044:

A GOOD tune from a guy who really understands how to tune is critical. It's not just turning off security and tq management.

DMG
07-04-2012, 10:12 PM
Right, you can add some fuel and a LOT of timing advance.

abrzrkr
07-05-2012, 12:15 AM
She took my advice & at least learned how to operate one, this knowledge actually saved my life once

You gotta tell the story now.

gonecheenin
07-09-2012, 06:35 PM
You gotta tell the story now.

:037:


Well - I had a 4 cyl 5 spd S10. We were out quad riding one day, & dummy me managed to roll Seismik's 500lb scrambler straight over onto my chest - handlebars first!


After a buddy knocked the quad off me so I could start breathing again - AND I finished "running" in circles on my side like one of the three Stooges - Seismik hauled me to the emergency room in that 5 speed Chevy S10.


She did great too, smooth as silk - till we were headed home & pulled into the driveway. She was so relieved to have made it with jerking the truck & hurting me any further, that she stopped the truck without pushing in the clutch! :shock:

THAT hurt a bit, but I just thanked her for getting me home where I could go NOT get up for awhile!! :042: