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View Full Version : Welp, 4 more years.



Super Scout
11-07-2012, 07:41 AM
How bad do you think it will get ? I am thinking within a year unemployment will be well north of 8%. Gas, and energy cost in general will rise. 5 dollar a gallon gas in this area for sure. Healthcare....well yea we are screwed. I can't believe that asshole won again, what the hell is wrong with people ?

MemorEsto
11-07-2012, 07:53 AM
People want a hand out not a hand up.

OverkillZJ
11-07-2012, 07:54 AM
I'm speechless.

joshs1ofakindxj
11-07-2012, 08:02 AM
Guess it has to get a lot worse before it gets any better.

scramblur
11-07-2012, 08:12 AM
Very scary! I think we will be surprised with what he comes up with now that he has free reign. How long before everyone with cc permits get a knock at the door??

PaMountianbiker
11-07-2012, 08:28 AM
What I don't understand is nobody wants him yet he gets voted in again ????????

joe_and_jeep
11-07-2012, 08:34 AM
Record numbers of latino, black and other minorities voting this year. He bought all of those votes.

mxg342
11-07-2012, 08:51 AM
I'm sick... My job is at a coal fired power plant and my wife is in healthcare. These bother me but nothing compared to my fear of these bastards taking my guns.

HeepH8erTy
11-07-2012, 08:58 AM
I'm worried too cause I design mining equipment... I dunno what's going to happen, I'm just thankful that my employer is huge and has many other divisions.

And they aren't going to take our guns, there is no way... just NRA propaganda IMHO. Its a fuggin right:
http://24.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_m7gpqtWACU1qzykdko1_500.jpg

Hypothetically speaking... if they were to "take our guns" couldn't you just immediately report everyone of your guys stolen? Then they would leave you alone and think that you dont have any?

MemorEsto
11-07-2012, 09:23 AM
All my guns went to the bottom of Lake Erie when my boat sunk....

Super Scout
11-07-2012, 09:34 AM
Another random thought, stocks, and mutual funds. Thinking about ditching mine and dumping all the money into savings....or possible real estate or some other form of investment.. Military trucks and Scouts ? All kidding aside anyone else have any thoughts on that ?

MemorEsto
11-07-2012, 09:47 AM
Another random thought, stocks, and mutual funds. Thinking about ditching mine and dumping all the money into savings....or possible real estate or some other form of investment.. Military trucks and Scouts ? All kidding aside anyone else have any thoughts on that ?

Gold

Super Scout
11-07-2012, 10:00 AM
Gold is a poor investment imho, if one or too of the big holders decide to sell the price will plumet baaaaaaad....

I could be wrong tho.

pittim
11-07-2012, 10:01 AM
I don't see why everybody is worried about their guns under Obama, when the only one that signed an assault weapons ban is the guy that lost?

http://web.archive.org/web/20040804033123/http:/www.mass.gov/portal/govPR.jsp?gov_pr=gov_pr_040701_assault_weapons_ban .xml

Sure Obama wants to, but the fact is he hasn't, whereas Romney did.

muddeprived
11-07-2012, 10:04 AM
Take all money out of banks....stuff into BIG ASS JARS....or 55 gallon drums.....move to forest in the middle of no where and prepare. The USA will go down.........


I didn't vote...but I am preparing.

DMG
11-07-2012, 10:29 AM
This is bad but it is time to suck it up and deal with another 4 years of him as our president.&nbsp; We need to start looking for viable 3rd party candidates NOW, not 18 months before the election because they will have a big hill to climb.<br><br>And we need to teach republicans not to poison the waters for other republicans with their extremist views and comments on "legitimate rape".&nbsp; They let the race be turned into Scrooge of Bain Capital vs. an underdog everyman from a middle class upbringing who earned points with the ultra-libs because he was a minority. <br>In reality, it was a couple of rich, ivy leage white men vying for office.

MemorEsto
11-07-2012, 10:44 AM
I wonder if our big Government is gonna bail out Suzuki...

chux72vette
11-07-2012, 10:58 AM
All I know is, to not bore you too bad. Everything I have is for sale!!!!! I will liquidate it all now while its still worth 12% of what I paid for it. I have a tent, 2 1/2 acres and a shotgun and I will be living there as then when I die I can be planted on my own ground. I will no longer be able to afford; Gas, Heating, Health Coverage, Food, Electric, Water, Phone, Internet, Cars(Jeeps), Guns & Ammo, Fun, Entertainment, Booze, Going Out to Eat, Memberships to anything, Cigarettes, or anything else that I have been able to for 49 years. I will now be a turtle or at least an amoeba of one.
I digress~
Sincerely no longer anything that counts,
chux72vette~

And to think I actually fought for all this in the USAF, WOW~

justin'sbig7
11-07-2012, 11:03 AM
I don't see why everybody is worried about their guns under Obama, when the only one that signed an assault weapons ban is the guy that lost?

http://web.archive.org/web/20040804033123/http:/www.mass.gov/portal/govPR.jsp?gov_pr=gov_pr_040701_assault_weapons_ban .xml

Sure Obama wants to, but the fact is he hasn't, whereas Romney did.

He had to play safe in his first term. Theres no reelection to worry about now... IMHO we havent seen even the tip of the iceberg yet. Entitlements will be on a dramatic increase, many large retailers, hotels, and restaurants have stated that they are going to reduce employee hrs to less than 30/wk to avoid the healthcare laws. World involvement and UN involvement on our soil is already in place. This is bad, we are about to see a dramatic decrease in businesses growing and, i woul bet that many will close doors while they can still salvage capital. This guy is a hardcore socialist, he has made no attempt to hide it.

I am with DMG, after the 2010 tea party rally most of the repubs went to business as usual. Too many are right wing liberals in that they want laws based on religious beliefs, and in their own right are just as big of a menace to society as the leftists. We need a true american party and it needs to start campaigning today.

2002wranglerX
11-07-2012, 11:33 AM
All I know is, to not bore you too bad. Everything I have is for sale!!!!! I will liquidate it all now while its still worth 12% of what I paid for it. I have a tent, 2 1/2 acres and a shotgun and I will be living there as then when I die I can be planted on my own ground. I will no longer be able to afford; Gas, Heating, Health Coverage, Food, Electric, Water, Phone, Internet, Cars(Jeeps), Guns & Ammo, Fun, Entertainment, Booze, Going Out to Eat, Memberships to anything, Cigarettes, or anything else that I have been able to for 49 years. I will now be a turtle or at least an amoeba of one.
I digress~
Sincerely no longer anything that counts,
chux72vette~

And to think I actually fought for all this in the USAF, WOW~

i wish it was that simple for me... with amelia and her medical issues, i'm terrified of what's coming.

here's what i posted on another forum:

So what happened last night, happened. There's nothing anyone can do about it. The political landscape remains basically unchanged. While i think this sucks, it does have one major advantage.

We have a good idea of what we're in for. No major surprises are headed our way.

So while those that fought the good fight like their wounds, they also need to be thinking ahead.

Debt: There's nothing we can do. 16 trillion now, projected 4 trillion more coming. If your financial planner hasn't been planning for this already you need to fire him/her. Diversify and hedge yourself against the coming debt.

Inflation: Interest rates have been artificially held low for what? 6 years now? eventually that's going to change. If you haven't refied at a fixed rate, now's the time to do it. If we get hit with inflation bread can cost 10 bucks/loaf but your mortgage will still be the same.

Fuel There's no reason to think that fuel prices will ever be any better than they are now. We know the policies on green energy and we know how the market reacts. If you're going to buy a motorcycle/fuel efficient car, now's the time to do it. Remember how expensive they were 3 years ago?

Healthcare if you're not completely sure what type of coverage you have you should be. Read your policy. Talk to your providers. I've been backlogging medication for amelia for months anyway, but it's not a bad idea to have that supply if costs increase.

Food3 months supply minimum. Not for the end of the world. But if cash gets tight, then you can still eat. I've been rocking about a months supply worth and it's handy. If we have an unexpected bill it's nice to know that we can skip the grocery store trip that week if needed.

tangible assets you need something. Guns are always easy to sell. I have property that i own outright. Etc. You need things other than paper money. I'm not saying go out and spend all your liquid cash, but if the dollar fails you need something that will prop you up.

So take today and lick your wounds. But don't just sit there, plan and be ready. Things are going to get worse before they get better.

there's definitely nowhere better to go. But you also have to realistically look at our situation. When you do it's pretty obvious that there's going to be some tough years ahead.

I believe it will come back, but i also want to be financially prepared for a rough stretch

check out the chinese and us markets today... I just called and locked in a REFI rate so i can ditch my FHA.

coverinearth
11-07-2012, 12:11 PM
Canada Anyone?

joshs1ofakindxj
11-07-2012, 12:33 PM
I'm worried too cause I design mining equipment... I dunno what's going to happen, I'm just thankful that my employer is huge and has many other divisions.

And they aren't going to take our guns, there is no way... just NRA propaganda IMHO. Its a fuggin right:

Hypothetically speaking... if they were to "take our guns" couldn't you just immediately report everyone of your guys stolen? Then they would leave you alone and think that you dont have any?


I don't see why everybody is worried about their guns under Obama, when the only one that signed an assault weapons ban is the guy that lost?

Sure Obama wants to, but the fact is he hasn't, whereas Romney did.

Read up on what could happen with SCOTUS. What about exectuive signing orders? I'd rather be prepared than say, "Oh, well this hasn't happened before, or it was different before, therefore it can't happen again". That is normalcy bias and the availability hurisitic at work.

As far as confiscation watch this short video and tell me how it makes you feel: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-taU9d26wT4&feature=player_embedded



Another random thought, stocks, and mutual funds. Thinking about ditching mine and dumping all the money into savings....or possible real estate or some other form of investment.. Military trucks and Scouts ? All kidding aside anyone else have any thoughts on that ?

There are some tangibles in this world that might not gain a lot of value (when correcting for inflation and other things), but they dont loose value either.

There should be some good prices on WASRs at Dunhams on Black Friday. Buy one now, and if nothing happens, I'll buy it from you at a fairly discounted amount later! You can get the single stacks cheap, then I can mill out the mag well with my pencil grinder to make it fit a double stack mag easily. Just get your mags now!

I know I sound like chicken little but I'm going to prepare for the worst and hope for the best.

joshs1ofakindxj
11-07-2012, 12:38 PM
Food 3 months supply minimum. Not for the end of the world. But if cash gets tight, then you can still eat. I've been rocking about a months supply worth and it's handy. If we have an unexpected bill it's nice to know that we can skip the grocery store trip that week if needed.

tangible assets you need something. Guns are always easy to sell. I have property that i own outright. Etc. You need things other than paper money. I'm not saying go out and spend all your liquid cash, but if the dollar fails you need something that will prop you up.

Solid advice.

SirFuego
11-07-2012, 01:10 PM
This is bad but it is time to suck it up and deal with another 4 years of him as our president.&nbsp; We need to start looking for viable 3rd party candidates NOW, not 18 months before the election because they will have a big hill to climb.<br><br>And we need to teach republicans not to poison the waters for other republicans with their extremist views and comments on "legitimate rape".&nbsp; They let the race be turned into Scrooge of Bain Capital vs. an underdog everyman from a middle class upbringing who earned points with the ultra-libs because he was a minority. <br>In reality, it was a couple of rich, ivy leage white men vying for office.

IMO, the GOP is going to stay irrelevant to all demographics except the whites until they just give up on certain social issues. If the last two elections have proven anything, it's that social, not fiscal issues, ultimately drive the election. I have some theories as to why this is the case with today's voters despite the economy being in the shitter, but I won't go into it unless someone wants me to.

Fundamentally, the GOP needs to change their "ideals" or else someone needs to exploit the viral nature of the Internet to really garner some votes...

Should I start brushing up on my web-programming, database, and computer security skills?
http://pgh-offroad.com/forum/showthread.php?18116-Cain-train&p=261384&viewfull=1#post261384

DMG
11-07-2012, 01:20 PM
We need to push for stricter border enforcement laws, too. Obama's Dream Act bought a lot of votes from Latinos and libtard white people that support illegal immigration. It is time to deport the illegals in this country.

DMG
11-07-2012, 01:21 PM
Canada Anyone?

Only pussies will run to Canada. We don't need them.

pittim
11-07-2012, 01:47 PM
I think the only real question left is...


...who is John Galt?

joshs1ofakindxj
11-07-2012, 01:58 PM
I swear by my life and my love of it that I will never live for the sake of another man, nor ask another man to live for mine.

dakota5605
11-07-2012, 03:30 PM
I say we move to Texas and sesede from the union and start our own country!!! I JUST CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT HAPPENED LAST NIGHT. ARE PEOPLE THAT STUPID!!!

jeepnick
11-07-2012, 03:33 PM
I say we move to Texas and sesede from the union and start our own country!!! I JUST CAN'T BELIEVE WHAT HAPPENED LAST NIGHT. ARE PEOPLE THAT STUPID!!!
I actually said that to my wife last night lol

scramblur
11-07-2012, 07:37 PM
I really hope no major surprises are headed our way, but I would not count on it. The sad part is you know they are already looking for the next "man of color" to run in four years.

joshs1ofakindxj
11-07-2012, 10:04 PM
I heard one walmart was sold out of ammo today.

Also just drove by the Greensburg Gander Mt. at 8:45 and the parking lot is FULL

tceraso
11-08-2012, 05:44 AM
Canada, stricter gun laws socialized medicine. What bite off your nose to spite your face!

justin'sbig7
11-08-2012, 06:55 AM
I heard one walmart was sold out of ammo today.

Also just drove by the Greensburg Gander Mt. at 8:45 and the parking lot is FULL

Many websites were out of stock on 7.62x39 and 9mm last night as i was looking. People are stocking up, not sure its necessary at this moment, but i dont discredit it as a bad idea. I think a few more hi cap mags are in my future. I see the weapons ban being reinstated at a minimum soon.

joshs1ofakindxj
11-08-2012, 08:09 AM
And HERE we GO

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/07/us-arms-treaty-un-idUSBRE8A627J20121107

justin'sbig7
11-08-2012, 08:51 AM
And HERE we GO

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/07/us-arms-treaty-un-idUSBRE8A627J20121107

Guess i spoke too soon.

HeepH8erTy
11-08-2012, 08:58 AM
And HERE we GO

http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/11/07/us-arms-treaty-un-idUSBRE8A627J20121107

I got tired of reading and stopped when I got to this part:


"We will not accept any treaty that infringes on the constitutional rights of our citizens to bear arms," he said.
U.S. officials have acknowledged privately that the treaty under discussion would have no effect on domestic gun sales and ownership because it would apply only to exports.

So am I wrong here, or did they flat out say that they aren't taking our guns away? Isnt that article just talking about trading firearms? And making things more legit?

joshs1ofakindxj
11-08-2012, 09:04 AM
Are you that naive?

At a MIMIMUM this could end imports to the US. Where did that Tokarev pistol you bought come from? Where does all the cheap wolf ammo come from? Etc.

Let's pretend door to door disarment is off the table. Imagine new taxes and on guns or ammo to make them prohibitively expensive. Or a 1 gun per month buying limit. Mental health evaluations for gun ownership.

We've seen that they're not afraid to limit our magazine sizes and our imported parts counts. It's just the next step to take it further.

I can send you links to archived email discussions in the Clinton Library that show the extremist left wing agenda is total disarment. No joke. Can they pull it off? I highly doubt it, but they can make it REALLY hard to own or buy anything other than a hunting rifle.

Super Scout
11-08-2012, 09:33 AM
I was talking to my Cousin from Texas last night about the election and state of the country, I think this is it. I think we will never have a republican/independent president ever. Here is why:
The Democratic party appeals to immigrants, esp illegals by giving them handouts. They won't vote for another party
Stupid people, stupid people will vote democrat because they are all on welfare this is where it gets bad, stupid people are stupid so they will pump out kids. Not caring of the cost, because the government pays them to pop out babies.
Smart people will actually think about who they are voting for BUT they wait to have kids and don't have as many.
So as time goes on there are more and more stupid people that are going to vote democrat, for welfare, and other entitlements. All the while there are less and less smart people to counter them. We were at the threshold this election. It was split pretty even, the only way we could of won was the last group:
Smart hard working people that insist on voting democrat even tho in the long run it is a horrible idea for their lively hood: Union workers, teachers, people with "white guilt" and life time democrats. These are the people who work hard pay their share but for some reason insist that Republicans only want their money, and Democrats care about them. The same ones who argue "Bama aint gonna take our guns". The same ones who argue "Mittens was gonna raise taxes on the middle class". And so on. If this group would of opened their minds and looked down the road they all would voted for Mitt.
The problem is that this last group is getting smaller, some have seen the lights, others just die, and some slip to the other side of total entitlement. I don't see how we can ever reverse it.
Obama won because people simply do not understand how our economy works. And more importantly do not understand that poor people never made this country what it is today. The business men did, the movers and the shakers. America is on the decline and will take something amazing to happen to get us back on track.
I just don't see us electing a president worth while for a long long time.
Hillary 2016 !

MemorEsto
11-08-2012, 09:46 AM
I'm all for a idiocracy genocide

justin'sbig7
11-08-2012, 10:10 AM
Eventually they will run out of everyone else's money and the recipient class will go full retard when they dont get anything anymore. It will get waaaayyyyy worse before it gets better.

SirFuego
11-08-2012, 10:55 AM
Obama won because people simply do not understand how our economy works.
Romney's tax plan works under a certain set of assumptions. Obama's tax plan works under a certain set of assumptions. So fundamentally, the debate centered around which set of assumptions was correct -- neither of which can really be proven or disproven.

Talking to my brother-in-law a few weeks ago, I told him that the wild card would be whether the voter turnout for minorities was similar to 2008. Obama lost the "white" vote by about 20 points -- Michael Dukakis lost it by about 18 points (and got absolutely hammered in the electoral college). I think that about tells you who won the 2012 election for the Dems.

It'll be interesting to see if the Dems continue to ride the wave of a "minority" candidate in the next election. It'll also be interesting if the GOP shifts its focus back onto "small gov't" and loosen their stance on social issues. The USA isn't a very religious nation any more, so there is no sense keeping it in politics.

At least Obammers is talking about bi-partisanship again, which was my #1 beef about the last 4 years.

That said, the Republicans will really start to be in trouble of minorities start to show up for the mid-term elections as well.

DMG
11-08-2012, 12:22 PM
Romney got 0% of the black vote (statistically) Next black person I hear complain about racism is getting kicked in the junk.

joshs1ofakindxj
11-08-2012, 12:29 PM
Something from the rumor mill that doesn't surprise me:

http://marketdailynews.com/2012/11/07/senator-dianne-feinstein-moves-to-ban-all-assault-rifles-high-capacity-magazines-and-pistol-grips/

http://www.examiner.com/article/feinstein-rumored-to-be-pushing-semi-auto-ban-if-obama-reelected


would ban pistol grips and “high-capacity” magazines, eliminate any grandfathering and ban sales of “weapons in possession”.

XJchris98
11-08-2012, 02:51 PM
romney got 0% of the black vote (statistically) next black person i hear complain about racism is getting kicked in the junk.


LOL

Don't even get me started on this...

pghchamp
11-08-2012, 04:03 PM
http://gunowners.wordpress.com/2012/11/08/obama-moves-forward-with-first-gun-control-measure-hours-after-election/

ridgerunner97
11-08-2012, 10:15 PM
LOL

Don't even get me started on this...

Agreed.

Azzy
11-08-2012, 11:58 PM
All the talk of how Obama will screw us (no mention of 2 supreme court nominees) and nothing on how screwed we can be from the 100% Ceasefire PA rated new Attorney Geneal. So many people were so obsessed with her promise to investigate the penn state scandals (here I thought the people who needed to be in jail were or were dead) that they ignored her promises to end reprocicity agreements with Florida and other states.

So much attention goes to the national level (where PA wont win, we cant outvote Philly and Allegheny and their SEIU power) that we ignore the sometimes much more dangerous PA elections.

If you are interested in hearing ways to at least save / protect our current levels of freedoms in PA for firearms ownership... stop by a FOAC meeting. The next one is this Sunday, from 10AM-12NOON. We will be meeting in the Whitehall Municipal “All Purpose Room” which is on the lower level. There is a lot of work coming up for PA in the next year, a ton to do to get our Senate to work for us, and more to do to get our own Governor to remember his campaign promises.

If you have any questions, either start up another thread, or hit me up at bryan@foac-pac.org.

Bird_Flu
11-09-2012, 01:16 PM
"We seek a treaty that contributes to international security by fighting illicit arms trafficking and proliferation, protects the sovereign right of states to conduct legitimate arms trade, and meets the concerns that we have been articulating throughout," the official said.

An administration backing this after Fast and Furious, yeah OK.

tceraso
11-11-2012, 09:40 AM
FYI
Read This about free phones: : http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/cellphone.asp (http://www.snopes.com/politics/taxes/cellphone.asp)

Azzy
11-11-2012, 10:49 PM
Bengazi was just another Fast & Furious, gone horribly wrong.

IBJEEPN
11-12-2012, 08:57 AM
Actually. What is needed for this country is someone to make a name for themselves, by actually serving the people of this nation. Bringing up no names at election time will get nothing accomplished. Division will not let this country flourish as well. If the great divide of the party's continues to grow it could destroy this nation. Our adversaries will be sitting back chuckling at our eminent demise. No terrorists will need to destroy America. We'll do it ourselves. Is it really worth not working together ? I think not..
But, some think that their ego's, their wants,their party, is worth destroying America.

justin'sbig7
11-12-2012, 09:16 AM
Actually. What is needed for this country is someone to make a name for themselves, by actually serving the people of this nation. Bringing up no names at election time will get nothing accomplished. Division will not let this country flourish as well. If the great divide of the party's continues to grow it could destroy this nation. Our adversaries will be sitting back chuckling at our eminent demise. No terrorists will need to destroy America. We'll do it ourselves. Is it really worth not working together ? I think not..
But, some think that their ego's, their wants,their party, is worth destroying America.

What causes the division and lack of working together is the distinct path towards socialism that one side is trying to force us down. There is a good reason to be polarized, if both sides work towards the direction we are heading it will create more entitlements and socialism.

Super Scout
11-12-2012, 02:49 PM
I agree Justin, part of me says the hell with it just let Obama do what he wants so these idiots can see what they voted for. But than the other side of me thinks I hope the stonewall him on every issue they can. Hopefully in 4 years we can salvage whats left. America needs to trim the fat, people need to start accepting responsibility for their place in life. I am done with the blame game.

MemorEsto
11-12-2012, 03:26 PM
They didn't learn the last four years, what makes you think they'll learn the next. The working class white man is the minority. I'm afraid I might not ever see a Non-Democratic Liberal president again.

IBJEEPN
11-12-2012, 05:30 PM
See there ya go... You think you're right and everyone else is wrong. Glad this nation didn't start that way. As I see it, One party wants a king and queen. To rule the haves and have nots. This is not the 15th century. People cannot just live off the land. Stereotyping is another issue. Neither party has done anything to control entitlements. I'm not here to argue. Or point fingers. But, if you want. Have at it. As long as we have inept candidates and division, we'll go nowhere is all I was saying.

justin'sbig7
11-12-2012, 05:41 PM
i would prefer the little, no name politicians. the guys who got pissed off enough to take a break from their daily lives and jobs to do some good for this mess, unfortunately they wont get elected because sheeple always go for a career politician who has never worked outside of a govt funded job.

DMG
11-15-2012, 11:39 AM
See there ya go... You think you're right and everyone else is wrong. Glad this nation didn't start that way. As I see it, One party wants a king and queen. To rule the haves and have nots. This is not the 15th century. People cannot just live off the land. Stereotyping is another issue. Neither party has done anything to control entitlements. I'm not here to argue. Or point fingers. But, if you want. Have at it. As long as we have inept candidates and division, we'll go nowhere is all I was saying.

I bet you voted for Obama.

Super Scout
11-15-2012, 12:12 PM
^ I think you is right.

SirFuego
11-15-2012, 02:23 PM
i would prefer the little, no name politicians. the guys who got pissed off enough to take a break from their daily lives and jobs to do some good for this mess, unfortunately they wont get elected because sheeple always go for a career politician who has never worked outside of a govt funded job.

Carl Paladino was the Republican gubernatorial candidate in New York in 2010. He was pretty much exactly as your described. He made it a point that he didn't care about being re-elected if he took office. He was unfortunately a loose cannon (his slogan was "I'm mad as hell") and it didn't help that the media provoked him (he publicly berated a reporter for "stalking" his house to get more information about his family) and twisted his words (he proposed repurposing old prisons as safe houses for the homeless -- which was twisted as him wanting to send the homeless to jail). Not to mention he was a bit too out-spoken on social issues like gay marriage that lost him a lot of votes. Running against Cuomo, a career politician whose name has been thrown around as a potential Democratic presidential candidate in 2016, pretty much guaranteed a loss in NY anyways, but it was pretty painful to watch the medias manipulation of the race and Paladino's inability to keep his mouth shut like most politicians would have on certain topics.

The problem is that the people you describe don't have the believable word-twisting and lie-stretching capabilities most successful career politicians have. IMO, that was the problem with Ron Paul. He spoke of things that no "partisan" candidate would ever dare say. He was dead on in his farewell speech in that there is no difference between Dems and Republicans when you get down to the nitty gritty. Both of them want a big gov't -- just depends whether you are talking about social or economic issues.