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View Full Version : Re-vamp of the trail-rides forum



Krod
03-03-2007, 02:32 PM
A suggestion to the Admins per the recent drama in the trail rides section.

Would it be possible to make the trail rides a more restricted area of the site?
Something like, you need to post in the introduction thread and hang around for a little bit so we can get to know you before you are granted access to the trail-rides forum?

I think this will cut down on the amount of spam, and junk posts in that forum. It seems a lot of people are simply joining and immediately posting in the trail-rides forum without introducing themselves. Some are fine, others seem to be here only to make trouble.



Discuss...

Bill
03-03-2007, 02:35 PM
The idea has my vote. Maybe put trusted forum members in a group in that section?

I am sure we can figure something out...

JeepGeneral
03-03-2007, 03:06 PM
I don't think there is a problem with the way the forums are now. 99.9% of the runs organized there work out. It just happens that you guys invited everyone on the forum to wheel with you, then told them there was no room for them. I even saw info about it posted on other forums. If you don't want a lot of people to come, don't post it on a public forum. It's the responsibility of the person starting the thread to know the land, whether it's safe and legal to take everyone on, and if stockers are not wanted then say so first.

Some people don't like posting online, but it's the easiest way to find people to wheel with. I don't think it's fair to deny them access to the trail ride section.

OverkillZJ
03-03-2007, 03:12 PM
Technically it is possible, but from a "who gets access" standpoint, can be a real pain that can cause folks to get butthurt. If anything we should probably make it viewable to members only, but even then, it makes it harder to organize rides as everyone on this forum, is a member of other forums. It's common and accepted practice to cross post runs and cross link to here; this is the first time it's become an issue.

I'm not saying yes or no, just throwing in more food for thought!

As was posted above, it's a web site viewable to the world, that was kind of the point; if you want a private run, don't post it on a public group. But to alleviate me, I'd say it's absolutely acceptable to say "we're going on a trail run, I'll lead, but we need to cut this group off at the first 20 people to say they're going."

More than anything it was just a miscommunication... Ok done ranting, just more food for thought!

mudforblood
03-03-2007, 06:12 PM
Here's my thoughts: The ride was loosely organized because it was originally just asking who and where. Then a place was picked and not long after it was stated as it was not a stock trail run. It was stated over and over again and there was still stockers wanting to go. We even asked for specs and got nothing.

I have trails I go on but there's no way 20 to 30 rigs could go there. Who here has lead a group of 30 rigs of various capacities on rough trails???? It makes for a long day. Plus there was only one guide in the group making it even harder to keep the group intact.

It wasn't the fact that they were stock but that nobody on here knew the people. Hell...I can take a ford escort on more trails than some can with a stock Rubicon (don't ask how I know). I'm not saying I'm better or worse than others, its just that I have little sentimental value for the vehicles I take into the woods. For all we knew this could have been their first time ever pulling their 30k rig off the pavement or could have been a comp buggy driver with no regard for the vehicles possible damage. Ya never know.

With that being said, I like the idea of a minimum to go on a trail ride, post in that section or something similar. I'm a member of a few clubs and still like pghoffroad as a middle grounds for casual trail rides. Its also good for starter wheelers to get their feet wet in wheeling, this just wasn't one of those times. I hate to see new people get scared away just because they cant go on one trail ride. The more people wanting to wheel the better it is for the whole offroading community.

andrew2516
03-03-2007, 06:18 PM
I agree...pghoffroad ONLY trail runs should have a private section. Maybe a certain # of posts to access it? Say 50 posts to access the trail run section. I think we could make it pretty clear who can view and who can't. Most of the people that wanted to go on that trail run only had 0-10 posts.

However, I do agree that the limitation/specifications should be laid out in the first post of the thread but I also agree that the person to open the thread should have full decision on who can and who can't go unless its an open place like paragon.

OverkillZJ
03-03-2007, 06:23 PM
So...you want two trail ride forums, for a forum with about 100 active members? Think about it.

I hear where you're coming from loud and clear, but there is no technical answer for this.

The person organizing the trail run simply needs to state the criteria, they are in charge of that run. If it's stocker friendly,say that. If it's buggy only, say that.

Do not assume people will read 4 pages of posts to know the rules of the run. I mean that'd be nice, but people never will.

It just comes down to communication again, and it's not something I can fix by throwing another forum out here. This isn't exactly a club, I'm not comfortable giving an invite only trail ride section, it's too elitist for a public group...

XJchris98
03-03-2007, 08:45 PM
I can agree on both ideas on this. Having a section only viewable to people with a certain number of posts may cut down on the number of people just joining to find local trails to wheel on...but I can also see it as a way for people to just start spamming the other threads just to get their post count.



JeepGeneral, what other forum did you see posts about a trailride from this site?

Krod
03-03-2007, 11:30 PM
Just an idea I had after the last run we tried to organize had so many issues.
I'll keep the future rides to PM's only.

Alley
03-04-2007, 12:26 AM
Ok, I need to add my .02 cents for you know post count and everything, This is the first problem there has ever been for a trail run. It started disorganized and just go worse from there. You already had expectations of who you wanted to be there and just never followed through on any of it. Then with it also being a controversial area in a public viewed forum its gonna make some people unhappy. We've had lots of first timers show up on trail runs with stock rigs and we were prepared for it as they posted before hand of their situation. I don't think one issue is good reason to change everything, especially for the headache it will cause Matt in the long run.

It seems like a place you guys enjoy wheeling and is not stock friendly, when you go there PMs are a good way of asking privately without public interference.


Edit... in the words of Wrecker, NOW Back to your regularly scheduled program

XJchris98
03-04-2007, 01:33 AM
This was the first time there's been a problem with trailrides because it was the first trail-ride which has been limited to only a certain number of people/rigs. It was stated early on by MFB, YZeater, KROD, etc. that it was NOT a stocker friendly run. Anyone with common sense would have realized that it was a limited run and if they didnt meet the criteria or posted up too late, then they wouldnt be able to go. Period. End of story. No one was trying to hurt anyones feelings, we were just following through with what the people leading the trail-ride wanted.

The idea of having the trail-ride section of the forum be more private was just to limit the BS that went on with the last planned trail-ride. By having to have a certain number of posts would mean that the person has been around long enough to get to know everyone and for everyone else to get to know them. It kinda stinks that because of this problem, I know I, along with others will be alot more cautious of how much information is put out there for trail-rides.

OverkillZJ
03-04-2007, 02:24 AM
Once again... One problem so far... Caused by miscommunication... Why cry wolf?

Take it as it comes, and one issue, is not enough cause for me to begin locking down a forum that has been running well. Please understand this is not against anywhere yere, but shit, I haven't even had to lock down Mallcrawlin which has LITTERALY 1000x the traffic of this site.

More so sites like colorado4x4 which is a STATE WIDE forum with thousands upon thousands of more members, not to mention legit trails; has yet to have a need for a private runs form: Why should we?

I think folks just need to calm down here, there's not really a problem at the moment.

mudforblood
03-05-2007, 12:41 AM
Ok here's a different thought on this. How about a template that could be stickied in the trail ride section and then copied and pasted? If the ride originates from pghoffroad then the template should be used. Even if it is just a post asking for any interest in going the original poster can edit the first post to show all of the info.

I suck at communicating things via computer so I would use it myself. Plus it would help everyone clearly state whats involved for new people, or someone wanting to take out their buggy.
Copy and paste this and edit it for any other ideas.

Where:
When: (date and start time on trails)
Meeting place & time: (bobs place @ 10:00 am)
Length of ride: (hours on the trail ie: 4hrs, 2days, til dark, til midnight)
Trailer parking: (yes or no)
Cost: (if any ie.park)
Number of rigs allowed: (ie:5, 30, unlimited)
Trail guides: ( Joe Dokes, Clem Kididdlehopper) yes I know both of those guys:098:
Type of rig needed: (stock,moderate,extreme)

Rig classification:
Stock= open/open, 30" tires and smaller, minor body damage unlikely but possible
Moderate= open/open or better, 31"-34" tires, body damage possible
Extreme= 1 locked diff. min., 35" and up tires, body damage likely

Disclaimer: blah,blah,blah front&rear tow hooks blah,blah towstrap blah,blah you might not have a daily driver after this blah,blah:120:

Please post up if you want to go. Also grade your driving capabilities 1 to 10. 1 being that this your first time offroad and 10 being your an experienced wheeler that has guided rides and your ready for anything.

What do ya think about this?

XJchris98
03-05-2007, 01:30 AM
I like it! That could take care of the confusion when organizing a trail-ride :icon_jook:

Muzikman
03-05-2007, 05:28 AM
The only thing I don't like about it is, no matter how stock friendly, there is always the possibility of body damage. I always let first timers know that dents and scratches are possible. So I would change that (or put a little disclaimer that although for a stock run body damage is unlikely, it is possible.

mudforblood
03-05-2007, 06:31 AM
The only thing I don't like about it is, no matter how stock friendly, there is always the possibility of body damage. I always let first timers know that dents and scratches are possible. So I would change that (or put a little disclaimer that although for a stock run body damage is unlikely, it is possible.

Thanks, I edited it some for ya. I didnt know how to describe the difference in the catergories.

Keep the ideas coming.

OverkillZJ
03-05-2007, 08:19 AM
I like Jeff's idea, just remember any disclaimer is pretty much by whoever wants to run the trail, pghoffroad isn't really an entity so we can't write a disclaimer from it.

JeepGeneral
03-05-2007, 10:29 AM
There was some talk about the run in a Paragon thread on eriejeeppeople.com. I like the template idea...making 2 different forums just leaves people out. I know I try to refer people in my area with nice rigs to the site. Having to post 50 times before they can join us in a run is bullshit. There has been one problem in the 6 or 7 years I can remember pghoffroad being around...ie wasn't the forum's fault.

mudforblood
03-05-2007, 10:48 AM
There was some talk about the run in a Paragon thread on eriejeeppeople.com. I like the template idea...making 2 different forums just leaves people out. I know I try to refer people in my area with nice rigs to the site. Having to post 50 times before they can join us in a run is bullshit. There has been one problem in the 6 or 7 years I can remember pghoffroad being around...ie wasn't the forum's fault.

I agree for the most part. It's only a problem when some one doesn't fit the qualifications to go on the ride and nobody knows them. To a first time poster it seems like everyone is just picking on their rig, but everyone else just needs to know what it can do. If someone posts for the first time in a trail ride thread it is a given that there will be questions that need answered first. Kinda like not letting strangers into your house. If someone on here knows them then they should let everyone else know that.

Anyways.... What else should change on the template?

I dont really like the stupid grading thing at the bottom but I couldnt think of anything else.

Muzikman
03-05-2007, 11:05 AM
I don't think you need to discribe what is needed. Just classify the run as "Stock", Intermediate", "Advanced" or "Extreme". For anyone who is above stock will understand and if they don't, they shouldn't be running anything other than stock.

Krod
03-05-2007, 12:16 PM
I don't think you need to discribe what is needed. Just classify the run as "Stock", Intermediate", "Advanced" or "Extreme". For anyone who is above stock will understand and if they don't, they shouldn't be running anything other than stock.


Thats a good idea. But what happens when people REFUSE to read that classification and post anyway? Happened about 5 times in that thread alone.


Like Matt said, its a misscommunication. We werent clear enough, and some of the new guys didnt bother to read the whole thread before posting.


Like I said before, I'll be sure to be much more concise next time.

Alley
03-05-2007, 12:33 PM
Thats a good idea. But what happens when people REFUSE to read that classification and post anyway? Happened about 5 times in that thread alone.


Like Matt said, its a misscommunication. We werent clear enough, and some of the new guys didnt bother to read the whole thread before posting.


Like I said before, I'll be sure to be much more concise next time.


Well, I think the main problem with the thread you guys started was that EVERYONE wanted to go..... You had about 30 college kids on break who jumped on a chance to go. Plus the thread was not actually a true run thread to begin with it was just a feeler to see who might be available. It just mushroom clouded from there.

Its not hard to delete and start over....The one good thing about the intraweb.

Muzikman
03-05-2007, 12:41 PM
Then they show up and you turn them away. Or you take them with you and the beat the hell out of their stuff and never wheel again. I think most people starting out will be cautious enough to not try anything they think will bang up their stuff. If their nuts are bigger than their brains, well, then strap them out when needed.

I have only been on one run where the stockers slowed the group down so much that we never got to complete the trail. But I blame myself for that one as the trail was just too hard for them and I pretty much knew it and should have led a stocker group through the easier trails. But that one time was the run from hell. Stucks, breaks, too many vehicles...you name it...it happened.

andrew2516
03-05-2007, 05:20 PM
Good idea Jeff...I think that pretty much covers it. The 50 posts thing would be hard especially for people who are experienced wheelers from other sites getting treated like noobs here just because of a post count.

mudforblood
03-05-2007, 06:05 PM
I think 50 posts would be kinda high anyways. 5 or 10 would be fine but it still makes it a PITA to operate like that. None of the lurkers would see that anyone actually goes wheelin and would never post anyways. At least the present way everyone can see whats going on. Just like in members only sections, nobody else knows if the club goes wheelin or not. Maybe a few pics here and there but that doesnt show very much. The site seems like a good middle ground even for other sites to B.S. about rides and doesnt need a member only section.

I do think the catergories need to stay just for a reminder to the organizer and the people wanting to go. One persons idea of stock, moderate or extreme is way different than another's. Maybe it should say trail classification instead of rig, and some different descriptions. Then if someone takes their rig there and trashes it, OH WELL, you were warned. On the other hand it would let more skilled drivers/rigs know that it might be a bit boring for them if it is only a stock ride.

Also change disclaimer to required items.

:icon_eyes: I don't know why I'm stuck on this subject? It was a thought that popped into my head and got stuck in there. Friggin Rainman or something....meh maybe Forrest Gump.:082:

CRCs Reality
03-05-2007, 10:46 PM
The rig classifications don't look bad, but keep in mind..

There are folks here who, in a stock (or almost stock) rig are going to walk through places that a less experienced guy on 35s may get stuck..

The size of the tires and ammount of lift are only a part of how well you'll do on a run...

People need to be a bit more responsible for themselves.. I mean, I loved the idea of going on this run, and I went on the last one to this spot and did OK (got stuck once, but it was brief.. The 'long' stucks included rigs that fit into the 'moderate' to 'extreme' classifications above, btw), but I also know that there would be more mud this time, and my XJ would be in trouble if it was deeper than before.. So I was happy to sit this one out. The guys putting this together were trying to get across to some folks how muddy this would be, and people weren't getting it.

mudforblood
03-05-2007, 11:26 PM
The rig classifications don't look bad, but keep in mind..

There are folks here who, in a stock (or almost stock) rig are going to walk through places that a less experienced guy on 35s may get stuck..

The size of the tires and ammount of lift are only a part of how well you'll do on a run...

People need to be a bit more responsible for themselves.. I mean, I loved the idea of going on this run, and I went on the last one to this spot and did OK (got stuck once, but it was brief.. The 'long' stucks included rigs that fit into the 'moderate' to 'extreme' classifications above, btw), but I also know that there would be more mud this time, and my XJ would be in trouble if it was deeper than before.. So I was happy to sit this one out. The guys putting this together were trying to get across to some folks how muddy this would be, and people weren't getting it.

I agree %100. Rig capabilities has very little to do with being able to make it thru the trails at hand. Thats kinda why I wanted to have a self grading thing involved. I would rate myself from 2 to 8 depending which vehicle I would take. There could be runs I would want to take my stock WJ with my wife and kid to runs where I feel like breakin stuff on my truggy. It all depends on what everyone else is running.

I have seen first hand someone with a stock rig wanting to go on an extreme type trail ride and they got mad when they were turned down. Also ended up on a 1 to 2 hour ride that ended up being close to 6 hours because the rigs involved were not capable. Stuff happens but it can usually be limited by not having rigs in a different catergory on the same trail. The terrain is different for each catergory, intermixing usually doesnt work out.

andrew2516
03-06-2007, 02:44 PM
The rig classifications don't look bad, but keep in mind..

There are folks here who, in a stock (or almost stock) rig are going to walk through places that a less experienced guy on 35s may get stuck..

Who might you be talking about?:icon_fU:

I do agree with Chris on this one, that drivers experience adds to the rigs ability. These classifications should be posted but alot of the decision is up to the person willing to take their rigs on the trail run. I personally have seen Chris do trails that alot of other modified vehicles have had a hard time on.

Like someone said earlier we should rate the trail including expected conditions for the season more than just the rigs alone.

Muzikman
03-06-2007, 03:28 PM
That's kind of what I was getting at with the Stock, moderate, etc.

CRCs Reality
03-06-2007, 07:54 PM
Who might you be talking about?:icon_fU:

I do agree with Chris on this one, that drivers experience adds to the rigs ability. These classifications should be posted but alot of the decision is up to the person willing to take their rigs on the trail run. I personally have seen Chris do trails that alot of other modified vehicles have had a hard time on.

Like someone said earlier we should rate the trail including expected conditions for the season more than just the rigs alone.

:040:
Thanks Andrew, although I wasn't thinking of myself when I wrote that.. There was a guy on that run (whos name I forget) in a stock GC who ran all over that place as well.. And just from my own experiences wheeling over the years, I've seen many stock rigs passing the lifted guys due to knowing what their rig can do..

But I DO appreciate the compliment :004: I'd be torqued to be told I cant go on a run I know I'm capable of just because I only have a 2" lift!

jeepxj3
03-07-2007, 03:37 PM
Krod, you should have made this a poll, so we could vote on it. I think the general consensus is change it...

OverkillZJ
03-07-2007, 03:50 PM
Krod, you should have made this a poll, so we could vote on it. I think the general consensus is change it...

[Rant mode on]

Howabout this for a poll: As owner of this software and the server it runs on, not to mention the guy that has the pleasure of fixing things when they do not work, or upgrading them when patches are needed, not to mention the daily "help me now I can't post for whatever reason" which is time out of my daily real-job: Absolutely not.

You can make any poll you want, but as the issue was more in communication than it was in technology, I refuse to take any more time out of my day simply to create a solution to a problem that lies in PEOPLES ACTIONS and not on the board / software configuration itself.

If this was a common occurance I would consider possible solutions, but as this seems to have been a ONE TIME ISSUE, anyone who has their collective panties up their buttcrack over this should probably remove them and give me a break.

Sheesh, go wheeling or something. It doesn't take a post in the trailrides forum, or even a PM to do that much.

jeepxj3
03-07-2007, 04:12 PM
[Rant mode on]

Howabout this for a poll: As owner of this software and the server it runs on, not to mention the guy that has the pleasure of fixing things when they do not work, or upgrading them when patches are needed, not to mention the daily "help me now I can't post for whatever reason" which is time out of my daily real-job: Absolutely not.

You can make any poll you want, but as the issue was more in communication than it was in technology, I refuse to take any more time out of my day simply to create a solution to a problem that lies in PEOPLES ACTIONS and not on the board / software configuration itself.

If this was a common occurance I would consider possible solutions, but as this seems to have been a ONE TIME ISSUE, anyone who has their collective panties up their buttcrack over this should probably remove them and give me a break.

Sheesh, go wheeling or something. It doesn't take a post in the trailrides forum, or even a PM to do that much.

http://www.jeepin.net/forum/images/smilies/owned.gif

andrew2516
03-07-2007, 04:19 PM
That was beyond owned...you just got b1tched:nod:

OverkillZJ
03-07-2007, 04:41 PM
http://www.jeepin.net/forum/images/smilies/owned.gif


Thank you for volunteering to be the target of my biterness towards the world for the day, it's much appreciated :041:

jeepxj3
03-07-2007, 05:11 PM
Thank you for volunteering to be the target of my biterness towards the world for the day, it's much appreciated :041:
:icon_hang:

No problem Matt!

JeepGeneral
03-07-2007, 05:33 PM
I agree with Matt, you all need to stop bitching, pony up some cash and drive out to Paragon this weekend. It may be your last chance...

jeepxj3
03-08-2007, 07:10 PM
I agree with Matt, you all need to stop bitching, pony up some cash and drive out to Paragon this weekend. It may be your last chance...
hahaha, im not bitching, im just here to have fun! Matt knows that! I wish I could make it to Paragon this weekend, but I still have grinding wheel bearings up front, rear axles to install, longer brake lines and shocks, pinion angle to adjust and alignment to do AGAIN....:icon_hang: