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mudforblood
01-27-2008, 07:52 PM
I was looking for something smaller than my XD9 to carry so I ended up with a Keltec PF-9. It's a good bit smaller and lighter. I'm pretty skinny so its hard to conceal anything but this one seems to do the trick. It hits my hand a bit harder than the XD but nothing crazy. I like it so far.:fenforcer:

Gun porn:
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k116/mudforblood/bang/S5031299.jpg
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k116/mudforblood/bang/S5031300.jpg
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k116/mudforblood/bang/S5031291.jpg
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k116/mudforblood/bang/S5031294.jpg
http://i86.photobucket.com/albums/k116/mudforblood/bang/S5031302.jpg

Bill
01-27-2008, 08:23 PM
Yep, I have a Kel-Tec 9mm as well. I have the P-11. It shoots very nice, but I NEVER carry it. I had the opportunity to talk to the guy that is charged with committing the robbery of the 7-11 recently. (The one where the clerk pulled out a gun and shot the actor.) The actor had 9 holes in him. All of them from the 9mm (Actually it was an XD-9 compact) and he was up and walking around less than two weeks later. One of the rounds actually hit him in the skull.

Nine 9mm holes later (at close range) and his is still up and walking around I consider him VERY lucky. More importantly, I learned I will not carry a 9mm. (Just my preference.) I think it probably had a lot to do with the type of ammo in the gun, but I still think I will stick to something at least a little bigger. I may actually sell my 9mm or trade it in for something a little larger.

mudforblood
01-27-2008, 08:48 PM
Yep, I have a Kel-Tec 9mm as well. I have the P-11. It shoots very nice, but I NEVER carry it. I had the opportunity to talk to the guy that is charged with committing the robbery of the 7-11 recently. (The one where the clerk pulled out a gun and shot the actor.) The actor had 9 holes in him. All of them from the 9mm (Actually it was an XD-9 compact) and he was up and walking around less than two weeks later. One of the rounds actually hit him in the skull.

Nine 9mm holes later (at close range) and his is still up and walking around I consider him VERY lucky. More importantly, I learned I will not carry a 9mm. (Just my preference.) I think it probably had a lot to do with the type of ammo in the gun, but I still think I will stick to something at least a little bigger. I may actually sell my 9mm or trade it in for something a little larger.

Hmmmm. I already had the XD9 so I was looking for bigger but the size was an issue for me. I cant hide very much on my side and other places show even more.:012:

Was the clerk aiming to just injure the actor? Where are the wounds on the actor? Maybe he wasnt shooting to kill, just slow him down. If I'm carrying a peeshooter I'd rather not carry at all.

anodyne33
01-27-2008, 09:09 PM
Has it done anything funky for you yet (jammed, stovepiped)? A friend of mine used to have an older Kel Tec and I loved how small it was, but his was the farthest thing from reliable. Looks sweet!

Bill
01-27-2008, 09:15 PM
Oh no, they were mostly center mass... one in the arm and one in the head.

He was too close to miss...

I am considering going up to a 45, maybe one of the Glock GAPs.

mudforblood
01-27-2008, 09:30 PM
Has it done anything funky for you yet (jammed, stovepiped)? A friend of mine used to have an older Kel Tec and I loved how small it was, but his was the farthest thing from reliable. Looks sweet!

No problems at all. I put almost 100 rounds through it so far with out a jam or hesitation. I guess they fixed a few problems with the original design. Supposedly the smaller caliper guns have a stamped upper while this one is machined. I was worried about the quality but the size sold me. I'll use the XD for playing with and keep this for carrying, I cant get anything bigger without it sticking out like a sore thumb.

Bill
01-27-2008, 10:33 PM
I don't think I have ever had a round jam up in my Kel-Tec either. It is a very reliable weapon.

EddyB
01-27-2008, 10:36 PM
Has it done anything funky for you yet (jammed, stovepiped)? A friend of mine used to have an older Kel Tec and I loved how small it was, but his was the farthest thing from reliable. Looks sweet!

X2

.40 cal is the smallest thing I would carry. I have an XD40 and don't think it sticks out that much. Maybe a different holster is in order.

anodyne33
01-27-2008, 10:41 PM
No problems at all. I put almost 100 rounds through it so far with out a jam or hesitation. I guess they fixed a few problems with the original design. Supposedly the smaller caliper guns have a stamped upper while this one is machined. I was worried about the quality but the size sold me. I'll use the XD for playing with and keep this for carrying, I cant get anything bigger without it sticking out like a sore thumb.

Good to know. Keep us informed on that. I had a Kahr MK40 for carry a few years ago that I unfortunately had to part sell. I may have to look into the new Kel Tecs if they got their feed issues worked out.

2002wranglerX
01-27-2008, 10:48 PM
Oh no, they were mostly center mass... one in the arm and one in the head.

He was too close to miss...

I am considering going up to a 45, maybe one of the Glock GAPs.

my lil bro just picked one of these up in a .45 as a carry gun. Not what you'd want to carry as a service pistol, but a damn good carry gun


http://www.parahawg.com/images/product/PSHX645Sphoto.jpg

DMG
01-27-2008, 11:23 PM
A compact gun you can carry easily is a lot more effective than the gun on your dresser at home because it is a PITA to carry. With some good JHPs it should be fine. Hopefully you will never actually need it.

2002wranglerX
01-27-2008, 11:39 PM
A compact gun you can carry easily is a lot more effective than the gun on your dresser at home because it is a PITA to carry. With some good JHPs it should be fine. Hopefully you will never actually need it.

ya i carry hydrashocks in my 9mm.

lookin to get a .45 again though.

mudforblood
01-28-2008, 08:33 PM
Oh no, they were mostly center mass... one in the arm and one in the head.

He was too close to miss...

I am considering going up to a 45, maybe one of the Glock GAPs.

I've been thinking about this pretty good and dont know what to think. Personally I would rather shot to injure than kill. Considering I havent had a need to injure or kill anyone up to this point I cant find a reason to have a one shot knock down gun to carry. If it slows them down enough to think twice then thats all I need. Charges for attempted homicide are probably less than homocide, cant say I ever been in that situation though. My thoughts right now are if I know I dont have the biggest gun then that might keep from drawing unless its a last ditch effort which will leave a few less holes in people.

You talked to the guy that got shot, right? He was charged for the robbery but did he actually do it? Also, was the clerk charged for anything? If the roberry charges dont go through then I would think counter charges would be in place.

I'm just trying to find my position on carrying prior to doing it, we have enough cowboys in this country, I dont want to be another one.

Bill
01-28-2008, 08:42 PM
The actor was charged with a the robbery and a list of other charges. I can't say if he did it or not, but there are a ton of local news stories out there about it. (A few of the local news stations posted up the footage of the in-store security cameras as well...)

The clerk was not charged in that incident, but he was charged in another incident a few days later where he pulled the gun on a customer, but it is totally unrelated to the robbery.

Look here for the footage / post gazette artice related to the story...

http://www.post-gazette.com/pg/08014/849180-85.stm

Bill
01-28-2008, 08:47 PM
Oh, and if you are going to actually pull the trigger you need to consider a few things...

1. You MUST have the threat or immenent serious bodily injury / death to you or someone else (would also include rape, kidnapping, death, etc...)

2. You take measures to stop that threat, once the threat is no longer present you can't justify the use of deadly force.


Taking that into consideration, and the fact that you are responsible for every bullet that leaves your weapon, you want to make sure you make those shots count.

Next time we are all out somewhere I would welcome this discussion, but I don't think that this is the proper place for it.

gonecheenin
01-28-2008, 08:50 PM
I've been thinking about this pretty good and dont know what to think. Personally I would rather shot to injure than kill. Considering I havent had a need to injure or kill anyone up to this point I cant find a reason to have a one shot knock down gun to carry. If it slows them down enough to think twice then thats all I need. Charges for attempted homicide are probably less than homocide, cant say I ever been in that situation though. My thoughts right now are if I know I dont have the biggest gun then that might keep from drawing unless its a last ditch effort which will leave a few less holes in people.

I'm just trying to find my position on carrying prior to doing it, we have enough cowboys in this country, I dont want to be another one.



I'm right there with you %100, I've been thinking more & more about being armed when I'm out & about

But I'm not sure which way I feel on that, the heart felt person in me doesn't want to hurt someone anymore then I would have too

The paranoid person in me however doesn't want some pc of garbage living to sueme later for protecting myself & end up getting all my lifes accomplishments via a civil court decision in his favor

Bill
01-28-2008, 08:55 PM
The paranoid person in me however doesn't want some pc of garbage living to sueme later for protecting myself & end up getting all my lifes accomplishments via a civil court decision in his favor

I can make that one real simple for you...

You can't file suit against a dead guy... Think about it. If the asshat you are dealing with takes it to that level and you can't meet that level of force you lose.

I am not saying that carrying a firearm is for everyone. There are a lot of things to consider. You have to consider how you would act / react in a life threatening crisis situation. You need to look at your own abilities. You also need to do a good self-assessment of your own temperment and think about how you would react in a variety of situations. If you are one to lose your temper and act like a fool when in confrontations a handgun and you might not be a good mix.

gonecheenin
01-28-2008, 09:04 PM
If the situation escalates high enough that I pull my gun, I'm going to kill someone. Otherwise, I'm not pulling out my gun. It would be a final last resort. I'd rather get the snot beat out of me and the other person never know I had a gun, than take it out and wave it around. I would have to feel that I was going to die, or more importantly someone in my family.

Thats a very good way to put it

mudforblood
01-28-2008, 09:11 PM
Oh, and if you are going to actually pull the trigger you need to consider a few things...

1. You MUST have the threat or immenent serious bodily injury / death to you or someone else (would also include rape, kidnapping, death, etc...)

2. You take measures to stop that threat, once the threat is no longer present you can't justify the use of deadly force.


Taking that into consideration, and the fact that you are responsible for every bullet that leaves your weapon, you want to make sure you make those shots count.

Next time we are all out somewhere I would welcome this discussion, but I don't think that this is the proper place for it.

I hear ya. I now its a touchy subject all around. Its hard to come to a defined point at which deadly force is necessary. I took my boy to the FMX thing saturday so I couldnt make it to the M&G to discuss it. I'd like some opinions.


I'm right there with you %100, I've been thinking more & more about being armed when I'm out & about

But I'm not sure which way I feel on that, the heart felt person in me doesn't want to hurt someone anymore then I would have too

The paranoid person in me however doesn't want some pc of garbage living to sueme later for protecting myself & end up getting all my lifes accomplishments via a civil court decision in his favor

Xeleventybillion!!!! If I'm gonna use it then I better have a damn good reason to. It goes along the same lines as the good samaritan act. If I'm going to rescue or perform CPR (which I've been trained to do) then I better make sure 100% that I'm not going to get sued. I think twice before even touching an injured person and make sure they get it all documented by a hospital or professional to keep me clear of liability.

I'd be pissed if I saved a life or stopped a mass killing and got sued. If that happened I would move to a remote spot in some other country.:097:

Bill
01-28-2008, 09:25 PM
You can't live your life in fear of being sued. You can file suit against anyone for anything. Go to your local magistrate's office, pay a nominal fee, and you can file a civil suit. I look at it like this. That is why we have insurance. If worse comes to worse you get sued and you lose. There are still some options out there to protect yourself before a lawsuit. You can't second guess those split-second decisions though - you need to do what has to be done and worry about being sued later.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying go out there and do whatever. You need to use good judgement and some common sense, but in all seriousness you need to do what you need to do.

mudforblood
01-28-2008, 09:28 PM
If the situation escalates high enough that I pull my gun, I'm going to kill someone. Otherwise, I'm not pulling out my gun. It would be a final last resort. I'd rather get the snot beat out of me and the other person never know I had a gun, than take it out and wave it around. I would have to feel that I was going to die, or more importantly someone in my family.

Have you ever been in a situation like that? I have.

I was working out of town and five of us walked into the wrong (ethnically) bar. We didnt even make it down the stairs before all hell broke lose. I made it out with only a few boot prints on my face and head. Another guy had to get 39 stitches on his head. The police HIGHLY suggested we dont press charges since it was a local gang that would find us. I can only imagine what would have happened if any of us were carrying and shots were fired. I saw blood pouring out of my buddies head and think it was worth shooting for but I would have been in the wrong since I was the minority and in the wrong place at the wrong time unknowingly.:013: In a perfect situation it all works out but thats not when you need a firearm anyways. The unexpected is what has me worried.

mudforblood
01-28-2008, 09:39 PM
You can't live your life in fear of being sued. You can file suit against anyone for anything. Go to your local magistrate's office, pay a nominal fee, and you can file a civil suit. I look at it like this. That is why we have insurance. If worse comes to worse you get sued and you lose. There are still some options out there to protect yourself before a lawsuit. You can't second guess those split-second decisions though - you need to do what has to be done and worry about being sued later.

Don't get me wrong, I am not saying go out there and do whatever. You need to use good judgement and some common sense, but in all seriousness you need to do what you need to do.

Read my last post. If I were to kill one of the gang members would a measly civil suit do anything? Probably not. I'd still be hiding from them since my name shows up 5 years later on the police doohickey even though I didnt do anyting wrong.

If I shot first and asked questions later I wouldnt be able to work at the job I have now. Schools seem to frown upon that kind of stuff.

EddyB
01-28-2008, 10:18 PM
I have pulled my gun once when some guy came after me with a tire iron. I was able to difuse the situation before I was hit or I even pointed it in his direction. I was standing behind the open door of my truck with my gun at my side. I told him several times that I wanted no problems and we should go our seperate ways. He kept coming. I showed him what was in my hand and his jaw hit the ground. I then said goodnight and he left witout further incident. The only way I would have shot was if he had hit me with the tire iron. Had it gone that far I would have aimed center mass. The moral of the story is don't bring a tire iron to a gun fight.

2002wranglerX
01-28-2008, 11:17 PM
I have pulled my gun once when some guy came after me with a tire iron. I was able to difuse the situation before I was hit or I even pointed it in his direction. I was standing behind the open door of my truck with my gun at my side. I told him several times that I wanted no problems and we should go our seperate ways. He kept coming. I showed him what was in my hand and his jaw hit the ground. I then said goodnight and he left witout further incident. The only way I would have shot was if he had hit me with the tire iron. Had it gone that far I would have aimed center mass. The moral of the story is don't bring a tire iron to a gun fight.

just a question (more for bill) after an incident like that, what's the appropriate pocedure? File a police report? leave and file it when you get home? what?

EddyB
01-29-2008, 07:08 AM
Put the gun away and call the police if it had not already been done. Then probably spend the night in jail.

JeepSteeler
01-29-2008, 08:20 AM
mudforblood - are you finding the XD9 too big to carry comfortably? I was looking at picking one up as a carry piece, but I have been on the fence about the size of it......

Bill
01-29-2008, 08:21 AM
Ryan,

To answer your question -

IMO, the presentation of the firearm was justified. A tire iron definitely has the ability to cause serious bodily injury and / or death. The follow-up is to call 911 and have the police come out to assess the situation / file a report / probably arrest or cite whoever violated the law. I would make sure to provide the 911 dispatcher with information on who was involved, who had the firearm, what happened, and follow their direction. They will most likely tell you what to do with the gun and ask questions about your description so that they can pass that information on to the responding officers since you are in possession of a handgun and that is something that they should know.

Bill
01-29-2008, 08:27 AM
mudforblood - are you finding the XD9 too big to carry comfortably? I was looking at picking one up as a carry piece, but I have been on the fence about the size of it......

If you are looking for something smaller to carry you may want to look into the sub-compact Glock line. I have a Glock 27 (.40) and carry it undetected almost everywhere. It is a nice small alternative to my HK .40 Compact. A lot of it has to do with the holster you use. For the Glock I carry a Bianchi CarryLok holster. The retention is excellent, and it still retains a very natural draw. The holster is a little on the expensive side, but it is worth every penny in my opinion.

http://www.galls.com/style.html?assort=general_catalog&style=LP329

JeepSteeler
01-29-2008, 10:50 AM
If you are looking for something smaller to carry you may want to look into the sub-compact Glock line. I have a Glock 27 (.40) and carry it undetected almost everywhere. It is a nice small alternative to my HK .40 Compact. A lot of it has to do with the holster you use. For the Glock I carry a Bianchi CarryLok holster. The retention is excellent, and it still retains a very natural draw. The holster is a little on the expensive side, but it is worth every penny in my opinion.

http://www.galls.com/style.html?assort=general_catalog&style=LP329


Thanks for the info Bill, I will certainly check into the Glock 27 as an alternative to the XD, and the holster you suggest. I usually only carry when I am fishing or hiking and my .357 dang near pulls my pants off, and a shoulder holster gets in the way. I will probably carry more often if I can get something comfortable. I was drawn to the XD by what I consider a pretty good deal on the gun, but perhaps it is not exactly what I am after.

hubba
01-29-2008, 11:42 AM
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z166/huba615/3rd-series-tan.jpg

I just picked up a Taurus Millennium Pro .40cal for $349 last week. I was looking for a sub compact to carry, and was looking at the Springfield xd's, but the price of the Taurus did it for me. I was thinking on a 380, but as someone said, I would not carry anything smaller than a .40cal. I was thinking of the .45, but liked the fact of the double stack mag.

PatF10
01-29-2008, 01:44 PM
The only way I would have shot was if he had hit me with the tire iron. Had it gone that far I would have aimed center mass. .

was just wondering, why wait until you get hit. He could potentially mess you up pretty good with a tire iron. Yes i believe wait until you show the weapon if he keeps advancing, and swinging shoot, but wait to get hit seems extreme to me.

either way, dont hear enough of these kind of stories. I dont know if anyone reads american rifleman ( or any of the NRA publications) but they have a section called the armed citizen and they are all stories like eddyb's. I just wish mainstream would have a crime stopped by armed citizen once.

Bill
01-29-2008, 03:57 PM
Pepper spray is not an alternative for lethal force, that is why it is a "non-lethal" (or politically correct, "less than lethal") alternative.

JeepSteeler
01-29-2008, 04:23 PM
http://i191.photobucket.com/albums/z166/huba615/3rd-series-tan.jpg

I just picked up a Taurus Millennium Pro .40cal for $349 last week. I was looking for a sub compact to carry, and was looking at the Springfield xd's, but the price of the Taurus did it for me. I was thinking on a 380, but as someone said, I would not carry anything smaller than a .40cal. I was thinking of the .45, but liked the fact of the double stack mag.

so how do you like it? did you buy it locally?

hubba
01-29-2008, 05:24 PM
so how do you like it? did you buy it locally?
I really like the gun, it's a nice size. I wanted a compact to carry in the small of my back in a " in the pants " holster or ankle holster. I bought it at Johnsons gun depot in Norvelt, just past the westmoreland fairgrounds.www.johnsonsgundepot.com (http://www.johnsonsgundepot.com)

anodyne33
01-29-2008, 05:25 PM
I really like the gun, it's a nice size. I wanted a compact to carry in the small of my back in a " in the pants " holster or ankel holster. I bought it at Johnsons gun depot in Norvelt, just past the westomreland fairgrounds.www.johnsonsgundepot.com (http://www.johnsonsgundepot.com)


Great place. Really great staff there. Their website has been down for quite a while now unfortunately.

EddyB
01-29-2008, 06:05 PM
To be honest with you, that way my ass is covered. Those of you that have met me know that running him around the truck till he tired is not an option.

EddyB
01-29-2008, 06:11 PM
I use an open top pancake holster from De Santis for my XD40. Holds it nice and close and rides high. I also have a Fobus paddle holster that I bought while looking for the DeSantis. If anybody is interested in it it's yours for $15. Sounds like we need a range day, Greater Pitt is open again, Who's in?

mudforblood
01-29-2008, 07:22 PM
Lots of good info and opinions guys. I'm going with Always Broke stance on it. I been in a few bad situations but never really saw a reason to pull a gun. This is for a last resort to save a life.


mudforblood - are you finding the XD9 too big to carry comfortably? I was looking at picking one up as a carry piece, but I have been on the fence about the size of it......
I like the feel of the XD in my hand but its to fat to hide for me. I weigh a whole 155 pounds wet :103: and have no hiding spots. I put just the gun in my pants at the small of my back and it sticks out like a sore thumb even with a big fleece shirt. On my side it looks like I have some kind of growth on one side. If you want to stop by my house or office to try it out let me know.

I think the width of a double stack is my problem. I have nothing out back to hold my pants up as it is, add some weight and extra space and my pants will fall down. The keltec was one of the thinnerand lighter ones they had. I've been wearing it around the house in cheap padded IWB holster to see if I like it and my wife cant tell when I have it on. Now I need to find a ggod holster.

Bill
01-29-2008, 09:46 PM
You would be suprised how easy it is for you to hide a gun - even if you are thin or frail. With the right holster and proper clothing you would be fine with some of the firearms out there with the double-stacked magazines. Even if a 600lb guy was wearing spandex he would have trouble concealing a gun. You can look at some of the ankle holsters, or a shoulder holster. You may also want to find something that hugs your side, unlike a pancake holster that sticks out some. Look at the holster I posted up a few post back and I think you would be impressed. If we do a range day sometime in the near future you are more than welcome to try mine on for size. I think you will be impressed with it.

Another thing to consider... You may want to stick with some of the mainstream firearms if you are looking for something that you can find a decent retention holster for. I have trouble finding holsters for my HK, but I can get just about anything for my Glock. You may not want a Glock, but there are a few other mainstream manufacturers out there. (Unfortunately the Springfield XD line still lacks in the duty / off-duty holster area.)

I am up for a range day sometime in the near future. I would suggest we wait a month or two just to make sure the weather is a little warmer. Nobody likes to have cold fingers out there on the range. It sucks and a warmer day with good weather is a lot more fun!

DMG
01-29-2008, 11:32 PM
For a concealed weapon it is hard to beat a S&W 642. It is hammerless so it can be shot from a coat pocket, alloy so it is light, it is compact and surprisingly accurate. It also shoots .38 +Ps.

pghjeeper
01-30-2008, 03:48 AM
For people with small hands I would say the glock model 27 for .40 cal and the glock 33 for .357. I would stick with a good quality firearm, remember if you are going to have to use it your LIFE will depend on it. You don't want to be in a situation where you have to use your weapon and it jams or misfires. For small people look into the Smith and Wesson Airweight revolver in .38 special or .357 magnum they are super light a less than 1 lb unloaded and with a revolver very little maintnance is needed. Most people for self defense shouldn't need more than 5-6 shots, especialy of .357 magnum. If you can't hit the person with 5 round of .357 then don't carry a gun. Most firefights take place at distances of less than 5 feet, non military. I carry a Glock off-duty because its a relaible handgun that takes little maintnance and is relativly small. On duty I carry a Sig P229 which is a good firing gun but requires a lot more maintnance than the glock due to its all metal contruction and need for lots of oil. Its also very large and very heavy and has a DAO trigger group with a 10lb pull...sucks!!!

For those of you who are non-law enforecment and you carry in the state of PA. You must retreat until you have no further ability to do so. Just being in fear for your life is not always enough. If you can run away or jump in your truck and drive away you are obligated to do so. Basically if your back aint to the wall then you have to retreat. The other thing is you always want to shoot to kill never shoot to mame or injure. Any good lawyer will get you on the stand and twist your words to the point of "If you really felt you life was in true danger why didn't you shoot to kill". I've seen people get jammed up on testimony by slick lawyers, and believe me you may get out of the criminal charges which is beyond the shadow of a doubt.....but civil charges carry a far less burdon of proof.
I will share two things that I was told when I got my permit to carry, before becoming a PO.
1.) Its better to be tried by twelve than carried by six
2.) Dead men tell no tales!!

pghjeeper
01-30-2008, 04:01 AM
EddyB I'm not monday morning quarterbacking you but just so you know, from what I have read and not knowing all the facts. You would have had to get in your truck and left or run away if you could. If you show someone your gun you can be charged by the Police or worse the guy could call the police and when they show up they are going to come at you hard. I have responded to 911 calls where the caller says someone pulled a gun on them. Even if it all ends up being BS the Police have to take the call for what it is. I can tell you that when you respond to a gun call and you find that person things can get ugly quick. The Police don't know who you are so to them your a bad guy with a gun who supposidly threatend a law abidding citizen. So when we show up its with guns drawn looking for anything suspcious or any slight movement you make. Its a very tense situation that I have been placed in and it sucks.

Carrying a gun is a huge responsability not to be taken lightly when I was 21 and got my first hand gun and carry permit I was really to stupid to have that gun, looking back at it now. With that said I firmly believe in the right to bear arms I think most people should be able to carry a gun. It is the most important of our rights given to us by our founding fathers. The right to bear arms by the people is the ultimate check in the system of checks and balances. You let the government take your firearms and whats to stop them from taking you rights and freedom.

JeepSteeler
01-30-2008, 09:12 AM
Lots of good info and opinions guys. I'm going with Always Broke stance on it. I been in a few bad situations but never really saw a reason to pull a gun. This is for a last resort to save a life.


I like the feel of the XD in my hand but its to fat to hide for me. I weigh a whole 155 pounds wet :103: and have no hiding spots. I put just the gun in my pants at the small of my back and it sticks out like a sore thumb even with a big fleece shirt. On my side it looks like I have some kind of growth on one side. If you want to stop by my house or office to try it out let me know.

I think the width of a double stack is my problem. I have nothing out back to hold my pants up as it is, add some weight and extra space and my pants will fall down. The keltec was one of the thinnerand lighter ones they had. I've been wearing it around the house in cheap padded IWB holster to see if I like it and my wife cant tell when I have it on. Now I need to find a ggod holster.

Thanks - I think I remember how to get to your place. I have your number so I might give ya a call and take you up on your offer - or if there is a range day maybe we can meet up there.

ezman
01-30-2008, 06:52 PM
i'm not a huge fan of the auto's i prefer a revolver... simple and effective...
if i do carry i rock my judge with some .410 short shells

mud4blood... i don't get what you were saying about your situation...
the color of the skin of someone who is trying to kill and or maime you does not matter... legally speaking i think you would've been justified by pulling your firearm if you had one in that situation... but just running was probably the best thing...

kel-tec also makes that in a .38 it is so tiny... it fits in your pocket... holds 7+1 i think...

mudforblood
01-30-2008, 08:32 PM
Thanks - I think I remember how to get to your place. I have your number so I might give ya a call and take you up on your offer - or if there is a range day maybe we can meet up there.
Sounds good. Sunday looks like the weather wont be too bad if so I might try to head to 910 range(dunno what everyone else calls it). I can shoot in my backyard but try to take it easy on the neighbors.


i'm not a huge fan of the auto's i prefer a revolver... simple and effective...
if i do carry i rock my judge with some .410 short shells

mud4blood... i don't get what you were saying about your situation...
the color of the skin of someone who is trying to kill and or maime you does not matter... legally speaking i think you would've been justified by pulling your firearm if you had one in that situation... but just running was probably the best thing...

kel-tec also makes that in a .38 it is so tiny... it fits in your pocket... holds 7+1 i think...

I was just saying we were in the wrong place at the wrong time and didnt know any better, nothing to do with color of skin. We didnt get out of there too easy. 39 stitches in the one guys head was a bit extreme for not using a firearm. Cant say for sure if I would have pulled a gun since I didnt have anything at the time. It could have went worse or better but I'll never know. That's the fine line everyone needs to define in with themself I guess.

Also where I bought the kel-tec said the 9mm is the only one with a machined upper slide, the smaller caliper guns are stamped and thats where the problems arise.

I bought this as a gun I will feel comfortable with to carry. I have never carried and none of my family does so its new to me. Even if I can hide a bigger gun I'll still be nervous that someone will see it and call me out, not that its a big deal, I just dont want the added attention. I'll buy bigger and better, I'm addicted now. Baby steps.:003:

EddyB
01-30-2008, 08:42 PM
Second time I've old been that. (buddy of mine who's a Bethel Park cop) At 3 in the morning when some drunk comes at you all I was thinking about was convincing him to stop. It worked, and maybe he learned a valuble lesson.

ezman
01-30-2008, 11:48 PM
I was just saying we were in the wrong place at the wrong time and didnt know any better, nothing to do with color of skin. We didnt get out of there too easy. 39 stitches in the one guys head was a bit extreme for not using a firearm. Cant say for sure if I would have pulled a gun since I didnt have anything at the time. It could have went worse or better but I'll never know. That's the fine line everyone needs to define in with themself I guess.

Also where I bought the kel-tec said the 9mm is the only one with a machined upper slide, the smaller caliper guns are stamped and thats where the problems arise.

I bought this as a gun I will feel comfortable with to carry. I have never carried and none of my family does so its new to me. Even if I can hide a bigger gun I'll still be nervous that someone will see it and call me out, not that its a big deal, I just dont want the added attention. I'll buy bigger and better, I'm addicted now. Baby steps.:003:

gotcha from the way i was reading it it sounded like if you had a gun and pulled it you would be in the wrong because you were in the wrong colored bar...

didn't know that about the lil kel-tecs makes sense though... they are so small it's ridiculous... cheap too...

PurplePinzeR
01-30-2008, 11:57 PM
don't bring a tire iron to a gun fight.

best advice ive heard in a while haha.

a good friend of mine will not carry his sig 9mm because he feels its not enough. he has a sig .40 and a glock.40, he only carries the glock because its smaller than the sig and not a 9mm

Sarge33
01-31-2008, 12:56 AM
i have a kel tec p-11 for $125 if anyone intresyed.
e-mail me mohawkshocker@comcast.net buyer to pay transfer fees