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PK
08-18-2005, 02:58 PM
It's actually unclear to me if they are talking of the caves or the mines... However some of you might be interested in this. I don't have any further info (yet), I expect I'll eventually find out through the Pittsburgh Grotto what the story is...



Game commission seals off Casparis caves
By Joyce Koballa, Herald-Standard
08/16/2005

SOUTH CONNELLSVILLE - The Pennsylvania Game Commission (PGC) has
sealed off two of four mine entrances leading into Casparis caves as
they continue to install metal bat gates at the top making them no
longer accessible for illegal camping and partying.


Melvin Schake, PGC information and education supervisor, said the
decision to close the entrances surfaced several years ago after the
commission discovered the heat generated from small fires set by
campers and party-goers caused the caves roofs to collapse in more
sections in addition to creating oxygen depleted areas.

"We've been aware of the Casparis mine situation for a long time
just because it became a site where there was otherwise unlawful
activity but it also became obvious there were roof areas that caved
in," said Schake.

While the area is also a haven for illegal ATV use, Schake said that
concern is a separate issue.

Whatever the use, South Connellsville Mayor Pete Casini views the
caves as a landmark.

"They've been there forever, and the game commission ruined them,"
Casini said.

Casini, who was unaware of the project, also noted the caves are
actually situated in an area of Connellsville Township that borders
the borough, but have always been referred to as Casparis Caves.

Casini further claimed that Casparis is listed on the Internet as
one of the best places to ride off-road vehicles attracting people
from across the state.

Schake pointed out the caves, also known as Opperman's Caves, are
natural sites and not associated in any way with the part of the
limestone mines leading into them that are situated on state
gamelands.

Schake said the PGC's executive director has restricted the area
until further notice.

According to Schake, officials from the state Department of
Environmental Protection's (DEP) Bureau of Mine Safety inspected the
site earlier this year deeming it a public safety hazard.

While the mine entrances were drilled and detonated with explosives
on August 5, Schake said the debris was used to close them off.

"Our primary objective there was to seal those entrances to keep
people from going in because it wasn't safe," said Schake.

Schake added Laurel Sandstone is funding the project through a
mineral lease exchange that also covered the drilling and explosive
material and the needed equipment.

Schake said the excavator had no problem sealing off the first two
entrances, but is short on material from the blasting to close the
other two.

"They don't have enough material to fill the void high enough to
install the (bat) gates," Schake said.

Schake added the commission is still looking for a resolution and
hopes to have them installed as soon as possible.

Ultimately, said Schake, the byproduct of the closing should create
an area more suitable for bats to hibernate in the winter without
human disturbance and inconsistent temperatures.

"We wanted to maintain access for bats and we're hoping that once
it's all said and done we won't have to worry about it being a
public safety issue and would have created a better bat habitat,"
said Schake.

OverkillZJ
08-18-2005, 04:14 PM
As far as I know, this was about the mining entrances on the way to the lookout we used to go to. Also, Connellsville is legal wheeling as long as you don't go by where the caves are, heck, Casparis is on the map as a state road...

TimMichaels
08-18-2005, 05:02 PM
I'm fairly certain they're speaking of the mines, not the caves. Its so common to see everyone get these confused, and it doesn't surprise me to see that the writer of this article followed suit.

I doubt they will ever touch Opperman's Cave... The entrance to this cave is so small and unknown that no one seems to know its there. Before I was able to pinpoint them I asked many residents in town for directions only to be told how to get to the mines over and over again. Additionally, the caves are perfectly safe, unlike the mines, and the roof is very stable. Not to mention those passages are way too small for a campfire... plus most are filled with a few inches of water.

What I don't understand is why they are so concerned with the bats. Now don't get me wrong, I am highly in favor of environmentalism and often volunteer to help with conservation projects, but the Casparis Mines actually houses few bats. Most mines in Pennsylvania, especially that size, are too cold for bats to hibernate in. Casparis Mine's bat population is low, smaller than that of nearby Opperman's Cave which is a small fraction of the size. They shouldn't need to "create" any "better" bat habitats.

Personally, I'm in agreement with the mayor. The mines were an impressive landmark, a symbol of both the area and the industry of the past. They sealed shut an interesting peice of history. I would much have rather seen them block the mines in an alternate manner, perhaps a large fence or something around the perimeter, rather than destroy them altogether. First Pechins, now Casparis. I hope this isn't a sign of what's to come.

Bill
08-18-2005, 05:51 PM
Tim,

Have you been out to the mines since the secured them? I was wondering how they looked now and wondering if anyone has any pictures of them...

-Bill

TimMichaels
08-18-2005, 07:23 PM
Tim,

Have you been out to the mines since the secured them? I was wondering how they looked now and wondering if anyone has any pictures of them...

-Bill

Unfortunately no, I've been trying to swap out my tranny. I should be done tomorrow or so and I plan on heading up through some of those areas for a few days next week for some wheeling/camping/caving/hiking/biking/geocaching/climbing before I head out for college. I'll try stopping by and getting a picture, but from what I've heard they've actually been guarding the area from the access road. I might be able to hike around the other way though... depends on how lazy I feel that day :roll:

blackjeep04
08-18-2005, 08:26 PM
Man, I just read this and Phil and I were out there today. They are defiently talking about Casparis Cave that is S. bound Connellsville. I have a picture of there restrictied signs (2 red signs in the back drop) posted. There is a way to take pictures you just need to find that route which I thinkdwe found today...I'm going back Monday with J.D so let me know.

This is before the creek crossing..


http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v304/blackjeep04/Casparis%20and%20Indian%20Creek%20August%2018th/DSC00001.jpg

mrpistol
08-18-2005, 09:31 PM
so close! :lol:

TimMichaels
08-18-2005, 09:49 PM
Man, I just read this and Phil and I were out there today. They are defiently talking about Casparis Cave that is S. bound Connellsville. I have a picture of there restrictied signs (2 red signs in the back drop) posted. There is a way to take pictures you just need to find that route which I thinkdwe found today...I'm going back Monday with J.D so let me know.

It's the mines, not the caves... two different things...

On another note, I dug up what I could from some contacts in the area. Apparently a lot of the Connellsville residents are still suspicious of this and create conspiracy theories over it. Their latest "evidence" is the massive expenses and efforts, the heavy guarding, and the apparent installation of an access door for researchers. I've heard that they usually have guards on duty around the area... the game commission claims that the closure is only temporary, and access to the lookout point will be allowed in due time when the blasting is finished.

bookfiend
08-18-2005, 10:11 PM
Here is a shot of the aftermath, from
http://www.usmra.com/photos/casparis/slideshow3.htm
The site isn't working for me right now though, probably overloaded.

http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/bookfiend/cavesafter.jpg

There is a great history of Casparis and the stone quarry at Fay-West.com:
http://www.fay-west.com/fayette/casparis/

bookfiend
08-18-2005, 11:04 PM
They've stated several times that this will only be temporary, just that they want the caves closed permanently. From the Tribune Review:
"Schake said the game commission doesn't want to keep people out of the Casparis area, just out of the caves."
www.pittsburghlive.com/x/search/s_361906.html
They also ran a very long article with several pictures in the Sunday paper two Sundays ago, but it doesn't seem to be posted online. I've heard through the grapevine that they are fining people or if they're lucky just shooing people out who cross the creek, rumors say a lot of lookieloos have been trying to go up anyway, even with all the warning signs.
People at geocaching.com posted previous to the blast that they met nice game officers who let them on past to the lookout geocache. But all the word is now that they are not being very nice, & the cache has been disabled. But will they let us know when they are done? I doubt it.


Here is the natural cave, commonly referred to as Opperman's Cave:
The mine is always called 'Casparis' cave or mine because it was mined by Kenneth Casparis.
http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v209/bookfiend/OppermansCaveEntrance.jpg
There are no roads AFAIK that lead to the natural cave, and it was quite a hike to get back to it the handful of times I've been there. I had the cold wet slimy pleasure of crawling clear to the clay room & waterfall back in high school once 8) Wouldn't mind doing it again someday...

quicksilver_rubicon
08-18-2005, 11:43 PM
thanx for all the info...pretty cool stuff, I would be interested in hiking up there, but is it "fat guy" friendly? :lol: talking about 6' tall and a 36 waist pants "fat guy" friendly?

PK
08-19-2005, 07:49 AM
If you're interested in caving, the best way to get a sense of it might be to start out with Laurel Caverns, which is a great commercial cave that gives lightly guided tours.

If after getting all muddy and banged up you're still interested, then I would recommend checking out the Pittsburgh Grotto's website, and hooking up with them: http://www.karst.org/pgrotto

If you're planning to visit a cave whether it is Laurel Caverns or with a caving club, you should do so with a helmet, at least three good light sources (at least one helmet mounted), gloves, long pants, boots with ankle support, a contact somewhere outside of the cave who knows where it is, who is there, and how long you intend to be there, and some previous caving experience. It is recommended to have at least three or four people when caving. One person to stay with the injured, and two to go for help.

People die in caves ( http://tinyurl.com/cbvb9 ), and it is not uncommon to hear of people becoming injured or lost in a cave. This is most commonly due to being unprepared, inexperienced, or careless.

More information on caving: http://www.caves.org and http://www.caves.org/safety

bookfiend
08-19-2005, 01:42 PM
PK covered it very well, great advice! I'd also like to credit karst.org, pretty sure that is where I got that picture. It's been so long since I saved it to my drive, I'm not sure anymore.

If you are worried about being rotund, I should mention that there is a section near the beginning of Opperman's Cave commonly referred to as "Fat Man's Misery." I was a bit smaller in high school when I crawled back and it wasn't pleasant back then. Fat Man's Misery is a long sloped section that is only about 2-3 feet high where you have to wriggle along snakelike on your belly, and on very rocky sharp ground.

Just hiking to the cave to check it out is pretty interesting, only right now you can't park at the trailhead due to the restrictions up there.
You can't see it in that picture, but there is a cool little room above the main entrance. You can climb up a side route, through a narrow tunnel and into this room without getting all wet and dirty or needing flashlights.

RedneckYJ95
08-23-2005, 11:40 AM
Fat Man's Misery is a long sloped section that is only about 2-3 feet high where you have to wriggle along snakelike on your belly, and on very rocky sharp ground.

I don't care who's lips you use, but you can kiss my a$$!!!!!!! 8O Can you say 'closterphobic'? I knew you could. :?

As for the game commission, why is it they have to raise the license fees next year when they seem to have plenty of money to waste? Thousands of dollars protecting bat habitat????? :roll: Who gives a damn - really? I'm sure those bats will do just fine whether man helps them or not. Don't get me wrong, I do care about environmental issues, and I don't support things like logging or drilling in wilderness areas. But closing off an area to outdoor enthusiasts (whatever the sport) in the name of a stupid bat is just insane. And nothing irks me more than the 'big brother is protecting you' bull$hit. Hey big brother - go poke yourself!!!!! :finger:

blackjeep04
08-23-2005, 11:46 AM
We were pulling out of there yesterday and past the game boys on the trail. They were driving a flat bed hauling 3 pallets stacked at least 4' high with concrete bags. I thought I would stop and talk but it sounded like the truck was going to blow the hell up trying to get up the drive.

jdetar
08-27-2005, 11:45 PM
I was up there last Saturday and Sunday, and again today. The game commission was there all three days actively taking people's information and fining them for going near the caves (only about 100 yards past the water crossing where the signs were previously posted in this thread). They were releasing a bear today. :lol:

XJJeepGirl98
08-28-2005, 12:09 AM
Yeh the game commision actually owns that chunk of ground down on that side now. So they're using it as an easy money making oppurtunity for all the curious ppl. Depends on who's down there though...a couple of them I know will let ya snoop around if they're in a good mood. What really cracked me up is them having ppl beleiving the feds were coming in. And part of y they are still being so over protective of that area is they're talking about doing some more blasting down there in the next week or two. That and things aren't done completly setteling from the last batch of blasting. It helps to have a grandfather who is one of their primary blasting consultants. :D