Do not look if you don't want a political rant

[OverkillZJ]

Because I'm sure that's what this video will start!

http://www.eyeblast.tv/Public/Video.aspx?rsrcID=2036

[jeepin ruby]

All i can say is... WOW!! Theres a lot of stupid people in this country. How could any body vote for a president that disrespects the national anthem? I wonder what his excuse is for doing that?

[Peccavi18]

Wow, interesting to say the least. Politics is absolutly not my thing, but with the way things keep going towards the shitter...

[Backwoods Couple]

Ok.. My stomach is in knots after that. Not that I did not know those things, but to just see it and think that stupid people are still going to vote for him blows my mind.

I copied it and sent it to my entire email list.. might be a good idea for everyone to do that. If one person can be enlightened it would be nice.

[YZEATER]

wtf. it's going to be the beginning of the end if he gets in there. muslim anything leading this county?? ha. better stock up on the ammo now.

[TimMichaels]

wtf. it's going to be the beginning of the end if he gets in there. muslim anything leading this county?? ha. better stock up on the ammo now.

He's Christian, not Muslim.

[Bird_Flu]

Considering the track of theological study his reverend is into it doesn't sound very Christian to me. It sounds more like hate speech.

[YZEATER]

did you watch the video? says his father is a muslim from kenya. what about his goofy reverend?? you must be a supporter.

[Jpdst29]

damn is he appalling!!! it makes me sick. http://www.gunandgame.com/forums/images/smilies/puke.gif

this country is phucked...:(

[Bird_Flu]

This man is Obama's Spiritual leader....http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,256078,00.html

Again sounds like Hate Speech to me...

[TimMichaels]

did you watch the video? says his father is a muslim from kenya. what about his goofy reverend?? you must be a supporter.

And my parents are Christians but I am an athiest. You don't have to have the same religious beliefs as your parents. And yes, he has a goofy reverend, as he is a member of a Christian church. They even say that in the video. I am not arguing any pluses or minuses about Obama. I just wanted to correct you on his religious beliefs. He's not a Muslim.

[TimMichaels]

Considering the track of theological study his reverend is into it doesn't sound very Christian to me. It sounds more like hate speech.

He is a reverend of the Christian church though. All religions have their extremists. For example, the diehard terrorists are a very tiny fraction of the Islamic religion. Its a shame Americans view them all that way. But I do agree, his reverend is a crackpot that spews hate speech.

[YZEATER]

ok not tecnically muslim, but has had that background. this country better wake up.

[TimMichaels]

ok not tecnically muslim, but has had that background. this country better wake up.

And what of it? What should a religion matter?

[Bird_Flu]

I hate to agree but in a lot of cases religion does matter. Most people's values are derived from their religion or their role model's or parent's religious beliefs. They can be changed and when you have been listening to a hate monger for 17 years I would think that would have some impact on your beliefs.

I'm not saying his Father being Muslim should matter one bit, just making a point.

[YZEATER]

i'm not a very religious person myself. but someone like that, with that type should not be a leader. there is another reason i think why he should not be in there but this isn't the place to say it.

[DMG]

All of Obamas role models have been communists, hate spewers, and black power supporters. He will only bring divisiveness and trouble if he is elected.

[Bird_Flu]

All of Obamas role models have been communists, hate spewers, and black power supporters. He will only bring divisiveness and trouble if he is elected.

I couldn't agree with you more.

[TimMichaels]

If those are your reasons to be against him that's cool. I personally find his reverend to be a racist, but there's no real proof that Obama is with those teachings. Afterall, he is half white and was raised by the white side of his family. Doesn't make much sense, ya know? Its definitely an oddity that needs to be monitored closely to be sure. The Marxist crap is somewhat farfetched though; there's a lot of space between those dots they connected. Heck, Bush once referred to himself as a dictator. Some interesting info, but it seems to me like people are busting out their tin foil hats.

I just HATE to see people be against the man simply because he is black or he is of a Muslim background. Its one of the first things mentioned as a fact in that video yet has really no bearing on anything. There is absolutely no reason we cannot have a black or Islamic President. If you believe otherwise you are engaging in the same sort of hate speech as that reverend and should be condemned just the same.

[jimmyc751]

WoW we're screwed. Personally I HATE the choices, I don't trust any of them.

[highlandercj-7]

He's Christian, not Muslim.

BULL Shikkies! That's what he's telling everyone so the dumb azzes vote for him! Why do you think he says he oposes the war, he don't want us kickin the shyt out of his people. There's also a buncha lil candy azz kids out there that will vote for him because they are affraid there mite be a draft and they will accually have to fight for there country.


All of Obamas role models have been communists, hate spewers, and black power supporters. He will only bring divisiveness and trouble if he is elected.

You are correct!

[Bird_Flu]

If those are your reasons to be against him that's cool. I personally find his reverend to be a racist, but there's no real proof that Obama is with those teachings. Afterall, he is half white and was raised by the white side of his family. Doesn't make much sense, ya know? Its definitely an oddity that needs to be monitored closely to be sure. The Marxist crap is somewhat farfetched though; there's a lot of space between those dots they connected. Heck, Bush once referred to himself as a dictator. Some interesting info, but it seems to me like people are busting out their tin foil hats.

I just HATE to see people be against the man simply because he is black or he is of a Muslim background. Its one of the first things mentioned as a fact in that video yet has really no bearing on anything. There is absolutely no reason we cannot have a black or Islamic President. If you believe otherwise you are engaging in the same sort of hate speech as that reverend and should be condemned just the same.

I guess the proof that Obama believes in the teachings would have to rest in the fact that he hasn't left that church for another one. If I disagree with the pastor of a church I go to a different one, especially if the teachings of that pastor include saying "God damn America." I have nothing against his skin color, I do have something against the fact the he is disrespectful to this nation. I don't understand how you can want to run a nation that you do not love. I understand wantning to change this nation for the better but that should come out of love for this country no spite or hate, which is exactly what his reverend has been preaching to him for the past 17 years.

[MemorEsto]

I can't believe this is the first time you're hearing about him not participating in the national anthem or the American flag. In his "protest" to the war, against "his people".

A guy at work has in 2" font white letter across his back bumper
UNLIKE OBOMA, MY SON IN IRAQ IS PROUD TO WEAR THE AMERICAN FLAG!!!

[DMG]

If those are your reasons to be against him that's cool. I personally find his reverend to be a racist, but there's no real proof that Obama is with those teachings. Afterall, he is half white and was raised by the white side of his family. Doesn't make much sense, ya know? Its definitely an oddity that needs to be monitored closely to be sure. The Marxist crap is somewhat farfetched though; there's a lot of space between those dots they connected. Heck, Bush once referred to himself as a dictator. Some interesting info, but it seems to me like people are busting out their tin foil hats.

I just HATE to see people be against the man simply because he is black or he is of a Muslim background. Its one of the first things mentioned as a fact in that video yet has really no bearing on anything. There is absolutely no reason we cannot have a black or Islamic President. If you believe otherwise you are engaging in the same sort of hate speech as that reverend and should be condemned just the same.

Obama was a member of that church for 20 years. Rev Wright married him and baptised his kids. If that is not proof then there is no way to prove it to you, you have already made a decision unencumbered by the facts.

Obama's father was Kenyan (Africa not the Middle East) and a muslim. Obama has a muslim name but as we all know, he has been attending a christian church for 20 years so he is probably not a muslim.

He has almost no political experience and is EXTREMELY anti-gun. That is enough to eliminate him as far as I am concerned. Don't fawk with the Constitution.

[OverkillZJ]

He's Christian, not Muslim.

Odd's are he's really neither, but his faith is not what worries me.

[Bird_Flu]

Odd's are he's really neither, but his faith is not what worries me.

His faith isn't what worries me either it's the moral structure he got from his faith that worries me. Not to mention his lack of commitment and respect for this country.

[TimMichaels]

BULL Shikkies! That's what he's telling everyone so the dumb azzes vote for him! Why do you think he says he oposes the war, he don't want us kickin the shyt out of his people. There's also a buncha lil candy azz kids out there that will vote for him because they are affraid there mite be a draft and they will accually have to fight for there country.

Sigh. Did you ever maybe think that he opposes the war because it is an incredible economic strain and risks the lives of our soldiers and their civilians with absolutely no benefit to our nation? Nah, its just us candy azz kids who refuse to put our tin foil hats on.

[MemorEsto]

Sigh. Did you ever maybe think that he opposes the war because it is an incredible economic strain and risks the lives of our soldiers and their civilians with absolutely no benefit to our nation? Nah, its just us candy azz kids who refuse to put our tin foil hats on.

Do you not know anyone in the military? Talk to anyone of them and they'll tell you there is no way that we could possibly pull out at this point. NO BENEFIT??? Are you effing tarded? We pull out, they rise up... now imagine 9/11 x5 , Hey, Maybe then everyone would be patriotic once again (for 3 f'ing months)

[TimMichaels]

Obama was a member of that church for 20 years. Rev Wright married him and baptised his kids. If that is not proof then there is no way to prove it to you, you have already made a decision unencumbered by the facts.

Obama's father was Kenyan (Africa not the Middle East) and a muslim. Obama has a muslim name but as we all know, he has been attending a christian church for 20 years so he is probably not a muslim.

He has almost no political experience and is EXTREMELY anti-gun. That is enough to eliminate him as far as I am concerned. Don't fawk with the Constitution.

Please don't accuse me of not understanding or not knowing any facts. It's a really unfair assessment.

I agree that there is an oddity about him remaining in that church for so long. Like I said before, I'm just not quite ready to assume his beliefs are the same as Wright's, but it's something I'd like to keep a watch on.

Oh, and realistically the Constitution does not protect gun rights to citizens. Don't jump down my throat that I'm anti-gun, because I am not. But the right to bear arms is really more of a privilege if you actually read the Constitution.

[MemorEsto]

Let me guess... you majored in politics ?

[Wrecker]

He speaks of change. What needs to be asked is what change and how much? Is it something that we want or he wants? There are too many unknowns and questions for me to vote for him. I do feel that this counrty needs to have some change. I just do not want someone to change it into something that is too far left. His background leaves to many influnces that I do not agree with. He might not say that he agrees with them but he sure has not done to much to distance himself from them.

[XJchris98]

Sigh. Did you ever maybe think that he opposes the war because it is an incredible economic strain and risks the lives of our soldiers and their civilians with absolutely no benefit to our nation? Nah, its just us candy azz kids who refuse to put our tin foil hats on.

And you think 9/11 didnt do anything to our economy? What about our civilians? Im not saying we should live in a tic for tac kind of life, but im sorry, theres no need to feel sorry for 'their civilians'. Sure theres no economic benefit to our nation, but im pretty damn sure its helping to secure it better. Go talk to the families of ones serving over there. Of course there not going to be thrilled that their son, daughter, husband, wife, etc. has to be over there, but ill assure you that they back the decision of both their loved ones and the president.


This is why I hate hate hate politics!!!! Regardless, I know one thing...anyone who wants to be president of our country shouldnt have a problem wearing our flag or respecting the national anthem. Neither of those have anything to do with race, religion, or background...so dont pull that bullshit.

[OverkillZJ]

Oh, and realistically the Constitution does not protect gun rights to citizens. Don't jump down my throat that I'm anti-gun, because I am not. But the right to bear arms is really more of a privilege if you actually read the Constitution.

What are you smoking, Tim?

The RIGHT to bear arms. It's pretty clear.

Anyway, I posted this because I refuse to vote for anyone who does not seem to believe in America, and sometimes does not even seem to like the country he's living in at all. If you refuse to put their hand over their heart during our national anthem, which has no footing in either major party, you are not fit to run this country.

He is bad news, period.

[TimMichaels]

Do you not know anyone in the military? Talk to anyone of them and they'll tell you there is no way that we could possibly pull out at this point. NO BENEFIT??? Are you effing tarded? We pull out, they rise up... now imagine 9/11 x5 , Hey, Maybe then everyone would be patriotic once again (for 3 f'ing months)

Yes I do know people in the military and yes I do understand that we can't just pull out at this point. I didn't say we should just pack up and go home. But who rises up? You do realize that 9/11 was perpetrated by people from Afghanistan not Iraq, right? It was lead by Osama Bin Laden, not Saddam Hussein? Hussein was a dictator who executed terrorists rather than supported them? Fact is our troops are not fighting terrorists, they are fighting insurgents. They are fighting people who are angry that we have forced democracy upon them. The war in Iraq has NOTHING to do with 9/11. That's the war in Afghanistan, and Osama Bin Laden is still a free man. How people are not in an uproar that he has not been found and executed baffles me.

And no I'm not effing tarded. I'm actually pretty intelligent. Please keep your derogatory comments to yourself if you cannot discuss this rationally without name calling.

[TimMichaels]

Let me guess... you majored in politics ?

Law. :041:

[TimMichaels]

What are you smoking, Tim?

The RIGHT to bear arms. It's pretty clear.

I'm not trying to be derogatory, but have you actually read the Constitution? Literally, the ammendment only secures gun rights for members of the militia... at the time it was written, that meant soldiers. It's clearly worded. In fact, there's a case from DC on the Supreme Court docket that will be using that interpretation in the Defense so you may be hearing about it a bit more. I think gun rights are great and should be kept, I'm just saying if you actually read the Constitution verbatum it doesn't really extend that right to civilians so using the Constitution isn't a good backboard to gun rights.

[MemorEsto]

The war in Iraq has NOTHING to do with 9/11.

I didn't say it did... I said imagine it x5
It doesn't matter, terrorist / insurgent they all hate America, and would love to blow themselves up to get some virgins.

[MemorEsto]

Law. :041:

I guess that would be why you're DEFENDING him.

[Bird_Flu]

Yes I do know people in the military and yes I do understand that we can't just pull out at this point. I didn't say we should just pack up and go home. But who rises up? You do realize that 9/11 was perpetrated by people from Afghanistan not Iraq, right? It was lead by Osama Bin Laden, not Saddam Hussein? Hussein was a dictator who executed terrorists rather than supported them? Fact is our troops are not fighting terrorists, they are fighting insurgents. They are fighting people who are angry that we have forced democracy upon them. The war in Iraq has NOTHING to do with 9/11. That's the war in Afghanistan, and Osama Bin Laden is still a free man. How people are not in an uproar that he has not been found and executed baffles me.

Actually a lot of the 9/11 hijackers were Egyptian. They just happened to train in Afghanistan.

I didn't agree with getting into Iraq but at this point if we pull the troops out as Obama has pledged to do we will be in for a lot more trouble, both economically and in regards to our national security, than if we stay and finish the job. Any intelligent person should realize that pulling out at this point would be DISASTROUS for the country and the world at large.

[TimMichaels]

I didn't say it did... I said imagine it x5
It doesn't matter, terrorist / insurgent they all hate America, and would love to blow themselves up to get some virgins.

Again, that's moreso Afghanistan than Iraq. It stems from their social code of Pashtun that supports those sorts of beliefs. Not really prevelant in Iraq. Insurgents are just people defending their nation. They're really pretty similar to our old patriots kicking England out. They just don't want people from across an ocean telling them what to do. We didn't really go in fighting terrorists, we went in to overthrow their government (whether or not Saddam was evil doesn't really matter because he was not going to attack the U.S. Period.) Honestly, there's little reason to believe Iraq would be a threat as it is not much of a terrorist hotbed. The war should focus in nations like Afghanistan and Iran where the madmen are willing to come into our nation and blow themselves up. But as of 2007 we spend as much money on the Iraqi War in 36 hours as we do in Afghanistan for an entire year, and that's where the people behind 9/11 come from. THAT makes me feel insecure.

[OverkillZJ]

I'm not trying to be derogatory, but have you actually read the Constitution? Literally, the ammendment only secures gun rights for members of the militia... at the time it was written, that meant soldiers. It's clearly worded. In fact, there's a case from DC on the Supreme Court docket that will be using that interpretation in the Defense so you may be hearing about it a bit more. I think gun rights are great and should be kept, I'm just saying if you actually read the Constitution verbatum it doesn't really extend that right to civilians so using the Constitution isn't a good backboard to gun rights.

It depends highly on the interpretation, and I believe the constitution allows us the right to form a militia when needed, but I am rusty right now.

You can stop using the word derogatory and stating your intelligent, we know. But some times intelligence and reality don't seem to mesh well :overkill:

I'm off to a weekend vacation, curious to see how many pages this is when I get back!

[OverkillZJ]

And while I'm at it:

OBAMA = BAD. That was the point of this thread, you bunch of PGH-OffTopic(ers).

[OverkillZJ]

The war should focus in nations like Afghanistan and Iran where the madmen are willing to come into our nation and blow themselves up. But as of 2007 we spend as much money on the Iraqi War in 36 hours as we do in Afghanistan for an entire year, and that's where the people behind 9/11 come from. THAT makes me feel insecure.

Is Obama going to do that?

Otherwise, why is it in my I hate Obama thread?

[Muzikman]

Amendment 2 - Right to Bear Arms.
A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed.

First off, a Militia is different than the US Military. There are no more militia's, they are now called the National Guard, which again is still not a militia. I would be really curious to see what would happen if a state decided to actually form a real militia.

And per the word, it states "people" not "militia" have the right to bear arms.

Now...for a militia to actually work, civilians need the right to bear arms, so yes, the two do go together. However, just because we no longer have militias does not mean that we should no longer have guns.

[Muzikman]

Actually a lot of the 9/11 hijackers were Egyptian. They just happened to train in Afghanistan.

I didn't agree with getting into Iraq but at this point if we pull the troops out as Obama has pledged to do we will be in for a lot more trouble, both economically and in regards to our national security, than if we stay and finish the job. Any intelligent person should realize that pulling out at this point would be DISASTROUS for the country and the world at large.

Honestly, I am not sure we would be in any more trouble than when we pulled out of Vietnam.

[TimMichaels]

It depends highly on the interpretation, and I believe the constitution allows us the right to form a militia when needed, but I am rusty right now.

You can stop using the word derogatory and stating your intelligent, we know. But some times intelligence and reality don't seem to mesh well :overkill:


You're right, interpretation has a lot to do with it. Like I said, it's coming up on the Supreme Court docket so it's goin to be very interesting to see what comes of it.

And sorry, I was just getting a bit annoyed with people just needlessly calling me retarded or whatever because I have different views while I'm doing my best to discuss it rationally.

The intelligence to reality thing is definitely questionable though :040:

[frndrfoe]

Source: http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html (http://www.law.cornell.edu/constitution/constitution.billofrights.html)
"Amendment II
A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed."



My interpretation: The PEOPLE have the right to arm themselves and form militia in the event that their government threatens their freedom.
...and it says "the right of the preople"

[SirFuego]

The letter "B" is commonly followed by "S" (BS is slang for bulls***). So now if you replace all "B"s with "S"s, Obama now becomes Osama. Yes, that's right! Obama is only one letter away from Osama! Do we really want our leader with a name so close to Osama?

Please send this e-mail to 10 of your friends, or you will not get laid for the rest of your life.

[Muzikman]

Well damn, there is only one character placement different between Santa and Satan. :)

[frndrfoe]

McCain could be an Irish derivative of Adam & Eve's murderous son Cain!

[Effjae]

They are all lying politicians and all suck. McCain sucks, Hillary sucks and Obama sucks.

[Muzikman]

But which sucks the least, that is the one you need to vote for.

Let's put it this way, I won't be voting for Hillary or Obama.

[DMG]

Oh, and realistically the Constitution does not protect gun rights to citizens. Don't jump down my throat that I'm anti-gun, because I am not. But the right to bear arms is really more of a privilege if you actually read the Constitution.

BULLSHIT.

Our founding fathers did not bother to put 'privileges' in the Constitution.

[Bill]

BULLSHIT.

Our founding fathers did not bother to put 'privileges' in the Constitution.

Wow. Dave and I actually agree on something political for once.

AMAZING.

[MF Steve!]

BULLSHIT.

Our founding fathers did not bother to put 'privileges' in the Constitution.

aaaaaand X3.

[DMG]

I'm not trying to be derogatory, but have you actually read the Constitution? Literally, the ammendment only secures gun rights for members of the militia... at the time it was written, that meant soldiers. It's clearly worded. In fact, there's a case from DC on the Supreme Court docket that will be using that interpretation in the Defense so you may be hearing about it a bit more. I think gun rights are great and should be kept, I'm just saying if you actually read the Constitution verbatum it doesn't really extend that right to civilians so using the Constitution isn't a good backboard to gun rights.

All the amendments apply to all the people, Tim. Most of the first 10 amendments refer to 'the people'. Including the 2nd. Maybe you need to read the constitution. Remember, the 1st Amendment is not referring to the military, either.

[notmYJ]

BULLSHIT.

Our founding fathers did not bother to put 'privileges' in the Constitution.

+eleventy billion

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6820256697033228388&q=bullshit+gun+control&ei=lLpASM2VDJGErgKs66iVCQ&hl=en

Follow the link. It gets interesting around the 45 second mark... This is a very good explanation of the 2nd. Makes sense to me.

And in closing, I would like to add another link...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-8573485072286560549&q=bullshit+gun+control&ei=lLpASM2VDJGErgKs66iVCQ&hl=en

[TimMichaels]

All the amendments apply to all the people, Tim. Most of the first 10 amendments refer to 'the people'. Including the 2nd. Maybe you need to read the constitution. Remember, the 1st Amendment is not referring to the military, either.



The second refers to the militia. It specifically says the militia. It's awkwardly worded really, due to the outdated grammar. It can very easily be interpreted that the right to bear arms is reserved to members of the militia. If it was so cut and dry in either direction it wouldn't be on the Supreme Court docket. Honestly, I see the Supreme Court ruling against the militia interpretation with little dissent, probably determing that the due process clause of the 14th amendment extends it to the citizens. My bet's on a 6-3 decision.

[Jimbo]

BULL Shikkies! That's what he's telling everyone so the dumb azzes vote for him! Why do you think he says he oposes the war, he don't want us kickin the shyt out of his people.

And then when he gets elected he's going to say HA HA! Fooled you! I was Muslim all along and then he's going to walk into the capitol building with an improvised explosive device strapped to his chest and blow up half of the legislature. Or maybe he'll hijack airforce one and crash it into the pentagon. umm... yeah.

[DMG]

The second refers to the militia. It specifically says the militia. It's awkwardly worded really, due to the outdated grammar. It can very easily be interpreted that the right to bear arms is reserved to members of the militia. If it was so cut and dry in either direction it wouldn't be on the Supreme Court docket. Honestly, I see the Supreme Court ruling against the militia interpretation with little dissent, probably determing that the due process clause of the 14th amendment extends it to the citizens. My bet's on a 6-3 decision.

It is somewhat awkwardly worded but we know that the Bill of Rights is a list of citizens rights, intended to be protected from the government. Most of the amendments refer the 'the people', including the 2nd.

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

You don't think this referred to the military too, do you?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

How about here?

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

[steveg0690]

I just sat down and watched that video. All I have to say is "..." That's it, I'm speechless.

Steve

[LordAthens]

Watch the first third and last third also, if you haven't already.

Best fawking magicians, evar.

[Mel85CJ]

I guess I just have to wonder what the point of the post is anyways.

#1. I would fathom to guess that about 90% of the pghoffroad folks aren't going to vote for Obama... for about a bazillion different reasons.

#2. The remaining 10%... aren't going to be swayed by an internet propaganda video at this point.

[2002wranglerX]

And my parents are Christians but I am an athiest. You don't have to have the same religious beliefs as your parents. And yes, he has a goofy reverend, as he is a member of a Christian church. They even say that in the video. I am not arguing any pluses or minuses about Obama. I just wanted to correct you on his religious beliefs. He's not a Muslim.

i'd be willing to bet you took some of your morals and values from them. Religion aside.

[2002wranglerX]

But which sucks the least, that is the one you need to vote for.

Let's put it this way, I won't be voting for Hillary or Obama.

lol. who can do the most damage is the way i'm looking at it.

Hillary, while she has a super liberal past, she is a politician to the bone. She'll bend and sway with popular opinion to keep her in power, but she'll stay moderate liberal to keep the votes. She is going to raise the federal gains tax to where it was in the 90's. I hate her health care plan.

McCain: well he's not really a conservative. He's ok on the war, but he's way off on the environment. He's a maverick but i still think he'd appoint decent supreme court judges. He and i don't see eye to eye on a lot of issues. But will people after 4 years think that McCain reflects the real conservative agenda? that's my concern.

Obama is going to cripple our military (he already said he would cut back on research). Obama is going to raise our taxes (federal gains are going to go through the roof!), Obama and his wife are both racist. Bottom line. Some of his wife's statements absolutely make me sick.

so take your pick . . . . I'm going to vote this year, too many people have died for me to have that right. I almost want to stay home and let the Libs screw up the country even more, rather than letting them say "look bush the 3rd messed things up blah blah blah. I'm not happy with any of em.

So i'll be voting for who i think will do the least amount of damage.

[Muzikman]

oh, and to get back on the original topic. Did you guys hear that he left his church? It doesn't have anything to do with the primay race or the contraversy.

[grannygears]

I don't usually engage in political discussions because they are fruitless but I just can't resist my two cents on this one.

The only person who has the potential to be a good president is someone who isn't a politician. Politicians by definition are people who have made a career out of looking good and being good orators (the current illiterate president excluded).

I am NOT a fan of Obama but that video was a typical example of politically motivated bias bs. Taking individual items out of context and stringing them together to suit your purpose is as meaningless as a single drop of water in an ocean. I personally believe if Obama is, by some miracle, elected president, he will be the next US president to be assassinated. There are far too many racists in this country for a black man to be the president.

The real reason I had to jump in here is the RIGHT to bear arms. Subject to interpretation? Excuse me? Statements are subject to imterpretation when someone needs to twist the meaning of that statement to suit what he or she would like to believe it means.

THE RIGHT of the PEOPLE to have and bear arms SHALL NOT be infringed because that renders them incapable of defending the security of a free state.

Yes, in keeping with the current events of 200 years ago, militia is mentioned but after having to fight to get out from under British rule our founding fathers knew the people could not be allowed to be defenseless against ANY threat to their rights, especially governmental threats.

Hitler knew the only way to control people was to disarm them.

"The 1938 Nazi gun laws also specifically banned Jewish persons from obtaining a license to manufacture firearms or ammunition. And about eight months later, Hitler imposed regulations prohibiting Jews from possessing any dangerous weapons, including firearms. The Nazi regime implemented this prohibition by confiscating weapons from Jews and subsequently engaged in genocide of the Jewish population" (Harcourt, 2004).

Take away their ability to defend themselves and they are at your mercy.

Didn't our goverment learn anything from Prohibition and the Controlled Substance Act? There's a plan... let's enable the criminal element to make even more money on the black market and strip away the rights of law abiding citizens.

[TimMichaels]

I don't usually engage in political discussions because they are fruitless but I just can't resist my two cents on this one.

The only person who has the potential to be a good president is someone who isn't a politician. Politicians by definition are people who have made a career out of looking good and being good orators (the current illiterate president excluded).

I am NOT a fan of Obama but that video was a typical example of politically motivated bias bs. Taking individual items out of context and stringing them together to suit your purpose is as meaningless as a single drop of water in an ocean. I personally believe if Obama is, by some miracle, elected president, he will be the next US president to be assassinated. There are far too many racists in this country for a black man to be the president.

The real reason I had to jump in here is the RIGHT to bear arms. Subject to interpretation? Excuse me? Statements are subject to imterpretation when someone needs to twist the meaning of that statement to suit what he or she would like to believe it means.

THE RIGHT of the PEOPLE to have and bear arms SHALL NOT be infringed because that renders them incapable of defending the security of a free state.

Yes, in keeping with the current events of 200 years ago, militia is mentioned but after having to fight to get out from under British rule our founding fathers knew the people could not be allowed to be defenseless against ANY threat to their rights, especially governmental threats.

Hitler knew the only way to control people was to disarm them.

"The 1938 Nazi gun laws also specifically banned Jewish persons from obtaining a license to manufacture firearms or ammunition. And about eight months later, Hitler imposed regulations prohibiting Jews from possessing any dangerous weapons, including firearms. The Nazi regime implemented this prohibition by confiscating weapons from Jews and subsequently engaged in genocide of the Jewish population" (Harcourt, 2004).

Take away their ability to defend themselves and they are at your mercy.

Didn't our goverment learn anything from Prohibition and the Controlled Substance Act? There's a plan... let's enable the criminal element to make even more money on the black market and strip away the rights of law abiding citizens.

The Constitution is open to interpretation because its orginal wording is so vague in nearly every aspect. That is what the Supreme Court does. That's not even the actual wording of the Constitution you cited.

[TimMichaels]

i'd be willing to bet you took some of your morals and values from them. Religion aside.

Makes me wonder where this immense hatred for white people comes from then. Obviously his dad didn't... or his mom? :120:

[TimMichaels]

It is somewhat awkwardly worded but we know that the Bill of Rights is a list of citizens rights, intended to be protected from the government. Most of the amendments refer the 'the people', including the 2nd.

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

You don't think this referred to the military too, do you?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

How about here?

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Those instances don't mention militia, so I don't really see the connection? I guess freedom of press also extends to the people? What about the right to vote? Guess my 1 year old neice must be able to vote because its in the Constitution and she is a person.

[DMG]

Those instances don't mention militia, so I don't really see the connection? I guess freedom of press also extends to the people? What about the right to vote? Guess my 1 year old neice must be able to vote because its in the Constitution and she is a person.

Minors do not have the same rights as adults, you know that.

The press is made up of people.

No more strawman arguments, please.

[TimMichaels]

Minors do not have the same rights as adults, you know that.

The press is made up of people.

No more strawman arguments, please.

And soldiers are different from civilians. The arguments are no different than yours.

[dan58]

The beautiful thing is that the SCOTUS will be providing the interpretation very shortly. They hinted during the arguments that they believe it is a personal right. I'm happy to see it.

[DMG]

And soldiers are different from civilians. The arguments are no different than yours.

Were we discussing soldiers?

[Muzikman]

And soldiers are different from civilians. The arguments are no different than yours.

Tim,

Freedom of press means that I can publish a new paper. It does not mean that ONLY the press can publish news papers. I spent an entire semester on the constitution, and my interpretation is totally different than yours.

[2002wranglerX]

Makes me wonder where this immense hatred for white people comes from then. Obviously his dad didn't... or his mom? :120:

his white grandma actually. he's thrown her under the bus several times.

[DMG]

his white grandma actually. he's thrown her under the bus several times.

True.

[MemorEsto]

oh, and to get back on the original topic. Did you guys hear that he left his church? It doesn't have anything to do with the primay race or the contraversy.

Yes officially, how political of him to resign from a church after 20 some years when everyone finds out what a wack job he's been listening to.

http://thecaucus.blogs.nytimes.com/2008/05/31/obama-quits-his-church/

[OverkillZJ]

I guess I just have to wonder what the point of the post is anyways.

#1. I would fathom to guess that about 90% of the pghoffroad folks aren't going to vote for Obama... for about a bazillion different reasons.

#2. The remaining 10%... aren't going to be swayed by an internet propaganda video at this point.


I thought I stated my intentions of the post pretty clearly. It even came with a warning in the subject.

[psychobilly]

Sign me up for the 10%ers. Thats where all the cool kids is.

[grannygears]

The Constitution is open to interpretation because its orginal wording is so vague in nearly every aspect. That is what the Supreme Court does. That's not even the actual wording of the Constitution you cited.


(making every effort to resist saying - DUH) I'm sorry, did that look like a cited quote to you? I was very clear that the Hitler thing was a cited quote. At any rate, here you go;

"A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed" (The Bill of Rights, 1791).

Now that it is quoted word for word - the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed - because how can an ordinary citizen defend the security of a free state without the right to bear arms? I do not see anything vague about it.

Put in the context of the late 1700's after they had fought and won a battle against an unjust government; they knew the people needed to have rights. Do you disagree?

[grannygears]

My apologies, Matt. I know I'm aiding and abetting this veer off from your original intention for this thread. Gun control issues are a pet peeve.

[OverkillZJ]

It's all good, it's relevant to where the post headed at this point!

[gonecheenin]

heh, heh, heh

My mother's no dummy :gear_cool2:

[psychobilly]

I decided to click on the video, figured what the hell. I made it all the way to a minute fourty.

[OverkillZJ]

Good for you! (Pats on the back)

:overkill:

[dan58]

The beautiful thing is that the SCOTUS will be providing the interpretation very shortly. They hinted during the arguments that they believe it is a personal right. I'm happy to see it.


Tomorrow @ 10am is the ruling.

[avenged7foldhc]

Mel85CJ http://www.pgh-offroad.com/forum/images/bgold/buttons/viewpost.gif (http://www.pgh-offroad.com/forum/showthread.php?p=110375#post110375)
I guess I just have to wonder what the point of the post is anyways.

#1. I would fathom to guess that about 90% of the pghoffroad folks aren't going to vote for Obama... for about a bazillion different reasons.

#2. The remaining 10%... aren't going to be swayed by an internet propaganda video at this point.


i fall in #1.. not a bazillion reasons though.. its very simple:
Black Man, White house. cant have him in there begging for change either, keep that in the slums. or at least give him a food stamp so he cant buy booze with it.

and as for you #2 people, tell me who you are because you are totally not invited to my anual kkk pig-roast and coon shootin' boogy.


http://tryworks.org/blog/wp-content/uploads/2007/02/Obama.jpg

[dan58]

The second refers to the militia. It specifically says the militia. It's awkwardly worded really, due to the outdated grammar. It can very easily be interpreted that the right to bear arms is reserved to members of the militia. If it was so cut and dry in either direction it wouldn't be on the Supreme Court docket. Honestly, I see the Supreme Court ruling against the militia interpretation with little dissent, probably determing that the due process clause of the 14th amendment extends it to the citizens. My bet's on a 6-3 decision.

So, the 2A applied to INDIVIDUALS.

[OverkillZJ]

Yep... Supreme court got something right for once...

[grannygears]

so they did

[2002wranglerX]

where did you get a hand grenade?

http://content.answers.com/main/content/wp/en/thumb/f/f6/275px-Anchormenweapons.JPG

[Backwoods Couple]

It's about time :068::068:

[trailblaze]

haha.. i love threads on religion and politics... it's as freaking crazy as michael bolton on LSD.

well i just watched the video...it doesn't suprise me that there is this much talk about racism... i mean america has never had a black president, in fact, does anyone know if a black man has even ran before?? i don't care if we have a black president... a red president, or this guy..

http://www.foxnews.com/images/331391/2_61_320_vid_blueman_nobug.jpg


what matters to me is and what should matter to voters is if the next president will lead us into more shit, or try to make america a better place... even with that, one can have different perspectives on whats better or worse... but if people vote on that, then the president was chosen because of what a majority of americans wanted... or well how many superdelegates were bought off.

[Muzikman]

That is actually a BIG misconception about the election process in the US. A President can be elected with less than the majority vote.

[trailblaze]

ya... i know.. gotta love our government..

[MemorEsto]

Time to revive....

http://hellnobama.com/

[92YJCBG]

canada`s looking better and better lol

[MemorEsto]

canada`s looking better and better lol

I've actually said this a couple times in the past couple months with the chance Obama is elected.

[BAD_GNR]

canada`s looking better and better lol


Take off, eh hoser.

http://blogs.theeagle.com/gasprices/wp-content/uploads/2006/10/strangebrew.jpg

[BigDukeSix]

You really started some shit here...

[92YJCBG]

You really started some shit here...

yep