PDA

View Full Version : Please keep your eyes out for these axles for me... (60/70)



OverkillZJ
10-02-2005, 05:17 PM
I've decided that maybe I'll pull some money out of the truck fund, and do this buggy buildup right the first time instead of sticking with my HP30/44 combo... Here's what I'm looking for, they pop up cheap now and then BUT GO FAST so please let me know if you see them..

My first choice is a 60 front 70 rear combo, it'd be nice if they're the same bolt pattern and same widtch. Width isn't a huge concern, almost anything will fut under my rig. a 14 bolt rear is another possibility, but I'm partial to the third pinion bearing on the 70.

It'd also be nice if the rear was converted to discs but also not a necessity. 35 spline is a must, but for the front 60 I could live with the 30 spline outers, it's a lot more common anyway.

If you dont understand all of this, doesnt matter, lemme know if you see anything! If you do understand this and I've got something wrong, lemme know. I'm just now starting to learn about these axles.

Krod
10-03-2005, 09:13 AM
http://www.jeepforum.com/forum/showthread.php?t=198053 8)

OverkillZJ
10-03-2005, 10:08 AM
That might work if shipping axles like that didn't cost about $600, LOL

14 rear is an option, but I'm going to hunt for a 60/70 out of a wrecked dodge first since I can find one with matching widths and bolt patterns then builld it myself for less $

psychobilly
10-03-2005, 11:08 AM
Its the 14 bolt that has the 3rd pinion bearing and the 9" ford. Dont get hung up on wanting the 3rd pinion bearing though. Axles that have that there have it for a reason, ie: the spiral on the gears and shorter spacing on pinion bearings which makes it a necessity, its not an "in addition" kind of thing like most folks think. Its just a different way of getting the same thing in the end. If I were you I'd be looking for a semi float dana 60 rear from a late 80's early 90's ford. Those things are beefy, they have big ol honkin 35 spline shafts and offer a good bit more clearane than a 14b or 70.

LeadFoot
10-04-2005, 10:19 AM
I would (and did) choose a 14bolt over a D60. I have never seen a stock FF 60 with 35spline shafts. I know they have them in SF but the full float feature is way nice to have. They are dirt cheap and it is way easier to set up the ring and pinion than any other Dana axle. You could set it up yourself. The ONLY downside to the 14bolt is the limiter to 5.13s, but rumor has it on PBB that they will be making 5.38s for it in the spring time. 1410 yoke, welded, disc brakes, all new bearings and seals, blah blah. I have $600 into my 14bolt and its about the strongest thing out there for the money. Beats a stock FF60 anyday of the week and you dont have to fork out $$ for 35spline shaft upgrades and the hub boring part.

Can't go wrong with a HP60 front. Good luck with your build up. Mine was one fawking big pain in the ass. Just remember during your build up...all these mod's bolt on. :lol: :lol: :lol:

psychobilly
10-04-2005, 05:22 PM
Beats a stock FF60 anyday of the week and you dont have to fork out $$ for 35spline shaft upgrades and the hub boring part

Even the gm 12 bolt or a ford 8.8 will beat your common run of the mill stock FF 60 any day of the week. The 14bolt is in a whole different leauge, way stronger. The dont get hung up on a 3rd pinion bearing comment does not mean its a drawback, it just means that its not an issue worth debating over, there other difference that factor in and both the 70 and 14 bolt do what they are supposed to in the end.

OverkillZJ
10-04-2005, 05:27 PM
Beats a stock FF60 anyday of the week and you dont have to fork out $$ for 35spline shaft upgrades and the hub boring part

Even the gm 12 bolt or a ford 8.8 will beat your common run of the mill stock FF 60 any day of the week. The 14bolt is in a whole different leauge, way stronger.

8.8 can kiss my bent axleshaft ass! so can 12. Actually, anything with c clips can suck it ;)

I've worked on and wheeled with 14 bolts. I think it's one of the greatest axles on the face of the planet... But even when it's shaved - MOMMA MIA THAT'S ONE BIGASS PUMPKIN! BACK THAT ASS UP!

It's still a definate possibility though. If I could do a 35 spline rear 60, I'd even take that over the 70 combo I was dreaming of just for the weight reduction. The rear end of this thing is going to be pretty light anyway, I don't want my axle to weigh more than the butt of the vehicle...

psychobilly
10-04-2005, 05:32 PM
Youve been around heeps to long (d35 c-clips suck yes!). The only 35 spline 60 you will be able to find is the sf 60, the FF 60's with 35 spline shafts are super rare. That means c-clips. Axle tech is way to "laymans" in the offroad community. Theres a lot more to the c-clip vs FF than what you think.

OverkillZJ
10-04-2005, 05:36 PM
c-clips are the root of all evils and will be the death of me :finga:

Had a bad 8.8 trail experience with a guys 8.8. I know they're not bad but I have an aversion, haha.

turdy five, let's not even go there!

I know how rare the 35 spline 60's are, which is why I'm not mentioning my lead on a public forum, LOL!


All the info is greatly appreciated though, like I said I'm still in learn / research mode on this.

psychobilly
10-04-2005, 11:09 PM
so when your searching for info, avoid sites like this one I linked that only tell you what they want you to hear:

http://www.extremegearoffroad.com/axles.htm

That info is true but it leaves out a LOT of important info! Like the 14B they compare is the somewhat uncommon SF version and the 60 they compare is the ultra uncommon and rare 35spline ff version. The 44 info is misleading because it wont mention the necked in stress riser on the 44 front and crap. Sites like that are useless when trying to get caught up on axle info.

Flimmy has a dodge 60 front for sale, I forget the price but I think 600bux comes to mind. It has 4.88's in it, I sold it to him about 2 years ago and he never used it. Problem for you though is good dodge 60f's are passanger side drop or the later drivers side ones are junk balljoint jobbers. Balljoint 60's are MUCH MUCH much more problematic than those c-clip 60's you fear. Problem number 2 is any 60 front you buy will need 35 spline stubs (later dodge axles wont offer this option near as I know). Dont even bother thinking you can get by with the 30 spline stubs cuz I will tell you way ahead of the game that you cant. 39.5's are way to big for a stock dana 60 front axle. A SF 60 c-clip rear will take an honest 2x's the abuse of that 30 spline stub if not more so if your worried about failure of a 35 spline sf c-clip 60 rear you better address that stub before even wheeling it. Belcher cant wheel his rockweiler with 39.5's without breaking a stub, toddk had the same issues, every time he came out he was breaking either his 60ff rear or 60 front...or both. He's in the middle of a rockwell swap right now as near as I know. He would probably sell you his front 60, its the one you really want. Its a ford kingpin hp drivers drop 60 with 4.10's I think. You would only need the spicer 35s stubs and to do the work to make them fit.

more crap:
A 14b or 70 are both good choices and will handle the 39.5's with no sweat, but so would a sf 60. I would use whatever one I could find but the sf 60 shaft in fact has a larger what I call "working diameter" than the 14b. In a light weight rig the sf 60 shaft would be stronger than the 14b, in a heavy rig the 14b would probably fair better as the bending stresses of the vehicles weight will begin to take effect on the sf shaft. It would need to be a real heavy rig though and need to be in a shock loaded situation for the 14b shaft to be stronger. I decided a while ago that I would have 44's on my truck and after long hours of thought and research I saw my first d60 sf 35 spline shaft. I decided at that moment the sf 60 was the best "factory" rear axle to handle em. Seeing one would make you a believer. Advantages of the 14 bolt are not deniable however. One is that the pinion is shorter, this is why it has the 3rd pinion bearing. The 3rd bearing is there because the seperation on the other 2 was not sufficient enough to keep the gears from deflecting. it works out to be an advantage in that the stubbyness can provide better driveline angles. The gears themselves would also be considerably stronger.



[/quote]

OverkillZJ
10-04-2005, 11:43 PM
Awesome, It's slowly starting to sink in.

I have a lead on a local set of 60's from a 78 350 (or maybe it was a 250 special camper series or whatever.) - I'm not to worried about gears, I'll probably be bugging DMG for some gear and locker setting eventually, LOL, but I have a good idea of how to compensate someone who's looking for some MTR's.

Anyway, the 78 60 front, according to pirate and confirmed with an axle guru friend, had the 35 inners, 30 outers, king pin, and amazingly are drivers drop. If it was passengers drop I'd just go with a D300 case but I'd like to stick with the 231 HD for now since I'm replacing almost everything else. Eventually I'll go gear driven tcase, but I'm not worried about it just yet.

I can't find much of any info on the rear 60 from those trucks, but it's what, a 99.9% chance it's a 30 spline full floater? Think it's worth converting to 35 spline, or is it just a paperweight?

Somehow one of my buddy from Colorado (owner of the Chalupa) managed to get hold of TWO rear 60's with stock 35 spline shafts. I haven't been able to hold of him lately though, his first born arrived 2 weeks ago so I don't expect him to jump on responding to axle questions.

The hunt continues, and so will the chopping :finga:

EDIT: the front's an HP60.

psychobilly
10-05-2005, 12:24 PM
Yeah, thats the front you want. That axle was only produced for 2.5 years and only came in the ford so they are super rare. They do have the 30 spline stubs but unlike the gm and dodge 60's they are a little difficult to swap to 35 spline. It can be done but start doing some homework on it if its something you plan to do.

The chance of that rear being a 30 spline junker is 100%. The only vehicle to ever have a 35 spline ff 60 rear was a 69 to 73 heep j20, and even in that they were probably rare. You can upgrade that rear to 35 spline shafts so its not a total waste but dont pay much for it.

If your finding what seems to be a full floater 35 spline dana 60 in a ford its not a dana 60, its an imposter. It would be a dana 61's. The dana 61 will appear to be a dana 60 until you try to get gears and realize you hit a brick wall. In an effort to increase gas milage ford wanted to put airplane gears in their trucks and the 60 would only take so high of a gear. To remedy this dana produced a slightly different carrier and housing to accomidate higher gears for ford. This was the birth of the dana 61, they are useless.

The other 35 spline 60 is the semi float c-clip 60. Not all the c-clip 60's were 35 spline, I dont know the years but if you stick to later 80's and newer your assured to get 35 spline. These are the axles sought after by the truck pulling crowd. They are the poop when it comes to high horsepower and traction.

You ever consider a rockwell? Toddk knows where to find them. They already have the gears, are super high pinion, super though and much cheaper than good 60's.

OverkillZJ
10-05-2005, 12:33 PM
Rock wells were the first thing I considered, especially since there was a set of 2 fronts 4 hours from here 2 weeks ago for under a grand.. What it came down to though is, as beefy as my claytons suspension is, those rockwells would tear it right off. When I started realizing that my long arm system is the ONLY thing we were planning on leaving relatively intact on this build, I started getting discouraged that rockwells truly means I'm wasing my time doing it on a ZJ buggy with a subframe welded to uniframe. We'd really have to cut it all out and re-think. I'd be left with a firewall, haha.

I guess it's doable, but the price I might be getting on that 60 front (if the guy ever writes back) is worth it, and it looks like I can get a rear conversion to take it to 35 splines at dealer cost (I love the mallcrawlin vendors!) - but if that falls through, I've got months to keep hunting for the right axles.

:sigh: maybe I shoulda gotten the rockwells. I'm just glad my time frame for this build is rather long, considering all my invested "truck money" is now going into the buggy anyway, I won't be able to wheel it anywhere but my own back yard for awhile.

psychobilly
10-05-2005, 12:36 PM
The chance of that rear being a 30 spline junker is 100%

I guess I should of said "unless swapped out". Stock 1978 60 rear was 30 spline, 100% guaranteed. Dont mean it didnt break though and the owner couldnt of stuffed an older junkyard 19 spline 60 in there. I dont know much about upgrade potential on the 19 spline 60's. I have nothing to offer there.

psychobilly
10-06-2005, 01:51 AM
If your serious about a 60 with the 35 spline upgrade Thumper from blwa has a 60 rear for 50 bux. Its from a late 70's ford and has the crapy 30 spline shafts but for 50 bux with 4.11's (has the carrier needed to go lower) you cant go wrong. Put it on some saw horses, do a disc brake swap, weld the carrier and upgrade to 35 spline and your all bling bling. Whatever rear you use definatly weld it. I seem to think it was you who picked up the 210 amp mig was it not? If so put some 035 flux core wire in it and weld whatever rear you get into a spool.

OverkillZJ
10-10-2005, 10:40 PM
Alright, I've been convinced enough. 14 bolt rear it is. I've got a GM 14 bolt w/ disc brake conversion, 4.56 gears, detroit locker on the way. It's all brand spanking new. The price was barely more than what I could build it for myself out of used parts, and it's one less thing to do.

I'm waiting for the guy with the 78 350 front end to call me back. It'll get 4.56 too, obviously, detroit, drive flanges, 35 outers.

why 4.56? Atlas II, that's why :twisted: