PDA

View Full Version : Presidential Election 2008



Bill
09-13-2008, 11:46 PM
Who are you voting for this upcoming election?

gonecheenin
09-14-2008, 12:01 AM
No clue

Can't decide who's the least worst :021:

Harley25
09-14-2008, 04:29 PM
No clue

Can't decide who's the least worst :021:

x2

EddyB
09-14-2008, 05:38 PM
None of the above should be a choice on the ballot.

anodyne33
09-14-2008, 08:54 PM
Where's the Libertarian button?

OverkillZJ
09-14-2008, 08:59 PM
I was wondering that myself :)

sb406
09-16-2008, 10:26 AM
Vote for Pedro.

OverkillZJ
09-16-2008, 02:37 PM
I've got to admit, this poll is most likely biased... Most folks on here know a lot of us on here swing right at least a bit, and are afraid of the shit they'll get if they admit to voting for Obama... The poll should've been anonymous if you wanted it to be more acurate.

With the exception of Tim, but he's just a hippy! :overkill:

BigDukeSix
09-16-2008, 02:39 PM
Hmmmm... A public poll on a site where every Democrat is f-in' filayed.... Great idea Bill.

OverkillZJ
09-16-2008, 03:05 PM
Anonymous poll added: http://www.pgh-offroad.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8103

BigDukeSix
09-16-2008, 03:43 PM
F-it. I'm voting for Obama. Like I give a shit what anyone here thinks about it.

TimMichaels
09-17-2008, 12:28 AM
F-it. I'm voting for Obama. Like I give a shit what anyone here thinks about it.

Don't worry, I have no problem proudly telling the whole group I will vote for Obama with absolute pride. And I pray for the good of us all that he wins or we will have a couple of war mongers keeping us in completely useless battle for years to come. Scary thought.

But then again, I am the resident hippy :025:

Muzikman
09-17-2008, 12:35 AM
Tim, I would assume you want another Vietnam war, where thousands of lives are lost for no reason what so ever.

I honestly think you need to sit down with some veterans and have a long talk with them.

TimMichaels
09-17-2008, 12:39 AM
Tim, I would assume you want another Vietnam war, where thousands of lives are lost for no reason what so ever.

I honestly think you need to sit down with some veterans and have a long talk with them.

What do you mean Jason? I certainly don't want another Vietnam. I don't want any war. Well, at least not in Iraq. I would actually favor continued and probably even expanded efforts in Afghanistan. And of course, were we given reason to invade another country i.e. they actually attack us, then we obviously need to do something.

Muzikman
09-17-2008, 01:02 AM
Iraq will turn into another Vietnam war if we we just walk away. Everything those men and women died for in Iraq will be for nothing. I encourage you to seek out some folks who have been over there. Listen to them, let them tell their stories and show their pictures.

You may not agree that we should have been over there in the first place, and that is totally up for debate, but what is not is bring out troop home before we are finished. Letting those men and woman who gave a life or a limb do so for no reason is not just foolish, but unfair.

I am serious, if you do not know anyone, please, let me know, I'll put you in contact with a few folks who I have the honor of calling my friends.

TimMichaels
09-17-2008, 01:37 AM
Iraq will turn into another Vietnam war if we we just walk away. Everything those men and women died for in Iraq will be for nothing. I encourage you to seek out some folks who have been over there. Listen to them, let them tell their stories and show their pictures.

You may not agree that we should have been over there in the first place, and that is totally up for debate, but what is not is bring out troop home before we are finished. Letting those men and woman who gave a life or a limb do so for no reason is not just foolish, but unfair.

I am serious, if you do not know anyone, please, let me know, I'll put you in contact with a few folks who I have the honor of calling my friends.

What are they dieing for? What is the objective?

We invaded under the false pretense of Saddam's possession of WMD's, despite the UN's disapproval. We subsequently came up empty-handed, which was no surprise, and Bush looked a fool, also no surprise.

Now the government had to pretend we had a different objective. Afterall, we just overthrew a government so we needed a reason. Throw in everyone's favorite post-911 buzzword: terrorism! We were there to fight those dreaded terrorists and made people somehow believe Hussein was a terrorist. Hussein was NOT a terrorist. He was NOT tied to 9-11. Somehow the current administration has gotten everyone to believe these falsehoods, simply by laying the names and terms juxtaposed to one another in oratory. It's effective because of the layman's ignorant fears. The terrorism plays itself out because the insurgents are so similar to the American stereotype of a terrorist; a Muslim fighting with unconventional tactics. So now everyone thinks we're there fighting terrorists, but no. They are insurgents. They are people defending their country from a foreign invasion. They are people who do not want Westernism forced upon them. Can you blame them? Would you want an army of foreigners telling you how to run your nation and live your lives? In the 1770's, insurgents fighting that were called Patriots. I'm sorry everyone, but contrary to what you may think Iraq isn't a terrorist factory. They have very little to do with terrorism, so fighting there prevents no attacks on our nation. It actually only further frutrates the people who would. Sigh. Saddam was a terrible twisted man, but he ironically brought something to that region that we the death of every one of our troops, no matter how valiant and dediacted, cannot achieve: stability. Democracy does not always work! He was feared, he executed terrorists, he had a handle on his people.

But alas, we need a more valiant cause in the eyes of the Americans. So now they made everyone forget we were there to confiscate fictituous nukes and believe we were there to instill democracy on the Iraqi people. A rather noble cause but why? And how? I'm sorry folks, but it is not our place to tell the world how to live. And yes I do love democracy (though realistically we actually live in a republic) but it does not always work. It will not work in Iraq. I know many people there want it, but many more do not. If they didn't, they wouldn't still be fighting. Obviously the Iraqi people are willing to do whatever it takes to maintain control. Do you truly believe that once we have a benevolent, democratically elected leader in position to lead Iraq that the extremist opposition will simply submit? No! This poor figurehead will be assassinated so fast you'll think Phelps pulled the trigger. Within in a year the country is in a civil war, within two a new dictator is in power. Write it down. This cannot be deterred by insurgent subtraction now. There is no such thing. You kill an insurgent, you create 5. Under their social beliefs, males will almost always seek revenge on a male relative killed in combat. So what happens when an insurgent gets sniped? His brothers, cousins, and sons take arms for revenge on the damned Americans. A sad truth. We are truly hated by a vast number of people in Iraq. If stability and freedom is to be obtained there, it will never be done with the stars and stripes. Our reputation is compromised and our tactics are a dead end.

So Jason what do you want them to achieve? There are no WMD's to take. Their dictator is dead. There are no terrorists to prevent from attacking us. Stability is an impossibility. A democracy will fall almost instantly.

You are right though. For us to leave a war like this is a downright shame for those who died fighting. It is a shame because they were sent there under false pretense, then forced to remain there to save face for an incompetent government. But I don't feel that it was in vain, and I don't feel it takes anything away from them. They followed their orders in an honorable fashion. Bless their souls. But why force more to do the same for no reason? How many lives must we sacrafice to make the first batch "worth it?" It is sad that they died for a fruitless cause, but it would be infinitely sadder for us to send many more to the same fate as we can begin to see that there is no end in sight.

Send the boys home. That's what would be right to do for them.

And yes Jason I have spoken with vets of both Vietnam and Iraq. I think you would be surprised how some Iraqi vets don't necessarily believe in their missions either.

OverkillZJ
09-17-2008, 08:54 AM
As Jason said, going in in the first place can be argued (although that was not entirely a Republican deal, don't play it as one). This can be argued.

Whether to pull out now or not, I consider that argument idiocy. What's started is started, pulling out now will create a larger disaster for us in the near future.

BigDukeSix
09-17-2008, 04:06 PM
I wish GW's daddy would've pulled out early... But how would we have such gems as these without him..

"Amigo! Amigo!" --George W. Bush, calling out to Italian Prime Minister Silvio Berlusconi in Spanish at the G-8 Summit, Rusutsu, Japan, July 10, 2008

"I'll be long gone before some smart person ever figures out what happened inside this Oval Office." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., May 12, 2008

"Wait a minute. What did you just say? You're predicting $4-a-gallon gas? ... That's interesting. I hadn't heard that." --George W. Bush, Washington, D.C., Feb. 28, 2008

"I heard somebody say, 'Where's (Nelson) Mandela?' Well, Mandela's dead. Because Saddam killed all the Mandelas." --George W. Bush, on the former South African president, who is still very much alive, Washington, D.C., Sept. 20, 2007

"There are jobs Americans aren't doing. ... If you've got a chicken factory, a chicken-plucking factory, or whatever you call them, you know what I'm talking about." --George W. Bush. Tipp City, Ohio, April 19, 2007

"You know, one of the hardest parts of my job is to connect Iraq to the war on terror." --George W. Bush, interview with CBS News' Katie Couric, Sept. 6, 2006

And the band played on...

OverkillZJ
09-17-2008, 04:22 PM
You can pull that many quotes against most politicians, but what does Bush have to do with the next president again?

XJchris98
09-17-2008, 04:31 PM
blah blah blah......



And the band played on...

Okay, so we know why you dont like Bush...what dont you like about McCain that Obama is planning on doing better?




People arguing about politics always makes me laugh. They tend to have a million and one things they dont like about the other guy, but cant think of 10 things they like about the person they're supporting.

BigDukeSix, you seem to post alot of your information from 'quotes'...which im assuming your pulling from the internet. Have you personally heard Bush say any of those things in a public speech or at some convention in your home town, etc.? Welcome to a wonderful thing called the MEDIA. Hell, Its easy to find dirt on anyone with just a simple search on google. Im not saying I agree or disagree with anything that your saying, but for all those quotes your posting, theres just as many good ones out there. They have nothing to do with the current, upcoming election.

::edit:: Matt beat me to it. :icon_pidu:

jeepxj3
09-17-2008, 04:35 PM
can we has another poll on who to vote for in the upcoming election?

BigDukeSix
09-17-2008, 05:06 PM
Okay, so we know why you dont like Bush...what dont you like about McCain that Obama is planning on doing better?
People arguing about politics always makes me laugh. They tend to have a million and one things they dont like about the other guy, but cant think of 10 things they like about the person they're supporting.
::edit:: Matt beat me to it. :icon_pidu:

Why thank you for asking Chris. And I thought you were just a thread sniping douche. You're concern for my political beliefs is truly an olive branch.
However...Seeing that you are baiting me to speak specifically about my beliefs in a forum clearly overun with hardline Republicans is extremely funny. "Matt beat me to it"... How lame. Oh wait...Matt, Chris wants you to rip me a new a-hole now for my political stance.
I will say this... I respect anyone that commits to a candidate or party and stands behind their beliefs. It's better than being on the fence. At least I can have respect for that.

That being said, go wax Joe Pa's ass.

OverkillZJ
09-17-2008, 05:12 PM
But you didn't answer what Obama would do better or what you like about him (you're not allowed to use the word "change") :overkill:

r6cyclegal
09-17-2008, 05:23 PM
Obama can raise his hand up higher over his head.

BigDukeSix
09-17-2008, 05:36 PM
Ok...
To me, Obama brings a fresh approach to D.C. politics. At least I hope this is so. "Change" , I certainly hope so. I really was disturbed by Palin's views on creationism and abstenence for teeneagers. Then her saber rattling against Russia. Now is not the time for that shit, our entire military is bogged down in the middle east. I used to like McCain. Especially when he was running for nomination against GW. Since then , in my opinion, he went from a man of independent thought to what is viewed by me a lock step with Bush doctrine and a real "heel boy" way of business.
He was an agent of change in my view and then appeared to sell him self for the current nomination. That, coupled with the fact that if his health fails I sure don't want her as President. So, I am voting for Obama. Let the "Change" begin. As I've said before though, no matter who wins, I predict they'll end up a loser in office because they are getting a bite of a huge shit sandwich.
Now, Matt, since you played into Chris' gameplan... Or was that the plan? hmmmm. Let the fun begin.

r6cyclegal
09-17-2008, 05:38 PM
We went to a president's thing on vaca and it kept talking about how all the first presidents hating being in office and couldn't wait to be done with their term. I think it may still be the same now.

XJchris98
09-17-2008, 06:06 PM
hahaha....I love political arguing....



That being said, go wax Joe Pa's ass.

And ill gladly wax Joe Pa's ass if the school that employs him is going to give me a good education...to get me a good job...so im not sitting on the intranet 24/7 whining about how the economy, apparently 'sucks' :042:



With that being said, my vote will be for McCain ...incase you couldnt tell:overkill:

BigDukeSix
09-17-2008, 06:19 PM
hahaha....I love political arguing....



And ill gladly wax Joe Pa's ass if the school that employs him is going to give me a good education...to get me a good job...so im not sitting on the intranet 24/7 whining about how the economy, apparently 'sucks' :042:



With that being said, my vote will be for McCain ...incase you couldnt tell:overkill:

I have a job. My economical situation is fine. But if you dont think other people have some serious econimic problems, I wonder where you recieve your information from?
Plus I really enjoy this forum. It has introduced me to some great people.
As for Joe Pa's waxing. Awesome!! It's good to see the college fund paying dividends already!!!:finger:

DMG
09-17-2008, 06:29 PM
Ok...
To me, Obama brings a fresh approach to D.C. politics. At least I hope this is so. "Change" , I certainly hope so. I really was disturbed by Palin's views on creationism and abstenence for teeneagers. Then her saber rattling against Russia. Now is not the time for that shit, our entire military is bogged down in the middle east. I used to like McCain. Especially when he was running for nomination against GW. Since then , in my opinion, he went from a man of independent thought to what is viewed by me a lock step with Bush doctrine and a real "heel boy" way of business.
He was an agent of change in my view and then appeared to sell him self for the current nomination. That, coupled with the fact that if his health fails I sure don't want her as President. So, I am voting for Obama. Let the "Change" begin. As I've said before though, no matter who wins, I predict they'll end up a loser in office because they are getting a bite of a huge shit sandwich.
Now, Matt, since you played into Chris' gameplan... Or was that the plan? hmmmm. Let the fun begin.

Rob, Palin believes in abstinence for teenagers but Alaska has some of the most liberal policies regarding sex ed. And abortion. She hasn't forced her beliefs on her constituents. Why would that change?

The Gibson interview took Palins words out of context and distorted her viewpoint on Russia. Look at the transcripts. The whole interview was edited to make her seem foolish. And Gibson was the classic hostile interviewer.

Vote for whoever you want but be aware that Obama is being bolstered by the liberal media who are willing to distort and lie to get their messiah into the Whitehouse.

TimMichaels
09-17-2008, 09:41 PM
As Jason said, going in in the first place can be argued (although that was not entirely a Republican deal, don't play it as one). This can be argued.

Whether to pull out now or not, I consider that argument idiocy. What's started is started, pulling out now will create a larger disaster for us in the near future.

But how is it idiocy? What atrocities will arise from us leaving? What is this imminent disaster?

I feel I already outlined how the most obvious outcomes are either impossible or inevitable. I'm interested if you know of another.

TimMichaels
09-17-2008, 09:44 PM
so im not sitting on the intranet 24/7 whining about how the economy, apparently 'sucks' :042:

If you're trying to say that our economy doesn't suck, you really need to go read up with the Economist. Then maybe follow it up with some doom's day news with a good Bearden reading :retard:

highlandercj-7
09-17-2008, 09:49 PM
McCain any thing else would be insane. obama is a "trojan horse" sent here to screw the good ol USA. He's two faced and full o' $hyt, fuuny thing is alot of fools believe the $hyt.

OverkillZJ
09-18-2008, 10:23 AM
If you're trying to say that our economy doesn't suck, you really need to go read up with the Economist. Then maybe follow it up with some doom's day news with a good Bearden reading :retard:

Oh my God...


:bsflag:

TimMichaels
09-18-2008, 07:00 PM
Oh my God...


:bsflag:

The Bearden crack was sarcasm, so yes it is BS. But do you really think we aren't in any economic problems. Like I said, I dare you to crack into the Economist a bit. We have an annual deficit of 1.5 trillion. The vast majority of Americans are living beyond their means. Investor confidence is dropping, which is a HUGE problem. In all honesty we need to do things that no party-affiliation will like: raise taxes, cut programs, and increase trade. Federal aides need drastically reduced, along with things like agricultural subsidies. Globalisation will also help. I mean come on... you know that sweet stimulus check you got a few months back? Our own government couldn't even afford to give that to you. You can thank China for it.

EDIT: I'm still waiting to hear answers to the last questions I asked you. Please explain my idiocy.