Axle query

[Sycotik Skier]

Alright so I'm out messing around on some rocks with my CJ today and I snapped an axle u joint. I'm not really suprised since I'm running 35x14.50 boggers on stock D30 shafts but well S*** happens. Shortly after trashing the u joint we were pulling me off the rock so I could pop it in 2 hi and drive home. Then my tie rod wishbones. Once again I'm not suprised since well I'm running my wide boggers on stock steering. This is all stuff I've been talking about upgrading for awhile and I'm thinking maybe it's time to finally upgrade to waggy axles. What am I in store for with this upgrade? Anyone have an approximate cost of 2 d44's, and everything i'd need to install it on my jeep? Thanks for the help

brent

[mxg342]

Are you planning to keep them at waggy width? I recommend it. When you pop a joint in them, at least you don't have custom axle lengths to deal with.

If so,

You'll need a different pitman arm (get it from the waggy), you'll need to modify your spring plates or get new ones. I have pics somewhere of the dynatrac u bolt flip kit and my home made version (using waggy spring plates).

You'll need to outboard your springs up front. The rear you'll just need to cut and reweld the perches. As far as cost, you won't be able to buy 1 set out of 1 vehicle. You need a 79 and older front and if you want a 44 rear you'll need one out of an 86(maybe 87)-92.

Gears, setup kit and labor ~ 1000
Axles ~ 3-500
Lockers ~ whatever you want to spend.
Misc stuff (spring plates, pitman arm, ubolts, etc) ~ $100 to 200

[Sycotik Skier]

alright I've seen numerous outboarding spring kits from BTF. PSC, and several others. what exactly does that entail? I do plan to keep them stock width just for clearance issues and ease of finding axle shafts. Brakes wise I'm assuming I can run the stock waggy brakes? Part of me is saying that I should just save every penny I make at my second job and go hog wild with this build but realistically I think I'll probably be running stock shafts, spool in the back and maybe a lock right up front. Gearing wise I'm thinking 4.10's would be sufficient since a) thats what I have now b) I do not have an over drive trans) c) I have a 305 SBC. I'd love to be able to just 4 link my jeep right now but it's not realistic with my financial situation. Drive shaft wise, I'm assuming I'm going to need one built. If thats the case I may as well do the XJ leaf spring stretch while i'm at it.

[justin'sbig7]

basically, you remove the old front spring hanger and add brackets to the side of the frame with some bolts and some welding and gussets. you can run the waggy brakes. i see you are in butler, i live up in chicora not far from you. if you want, stop out and we can go over this a bit in detail. also, i knew a guy local who was making the kit to do this. i would have to check with him and see if he can still make them.

[Sycotik Skier]

another question I had was do you think 44's would hold up to 37" Iroks?

[LordAthens]

With a light foot and alloy shafts, but it's not going to be bomb proof.

[Sycotik Skier]

light foot. ha ha ha ha ha ha.

[Ragnorox]

I talked to a guy a couple weeks back that had a 60 front and a 9.25 rear out of a late 90's dodge, IRMC he only wanted $200

[mxg342]

I run the 36" iroks on my 44's. The 36's actually measure out bigger than the 37's. I have had my fair share of front shaft problems. I think everyone will tell you to run alloys at a minimum. I was able to run stock shafts for about a year. Then they started breaking. I bought a set of Yukons, broke them in 2 trailrides. They were replaced and so far they're holding up.

I would think you should look at the Warn shafts with Yukon superjoints or CTM's. Yeah it's pricy but warn will not warranty the shafts if they are broken due to ujoint failure which is a pretty good chance you'll have that running spicer joints.

[justin'sbig7]

i got 2 years running 36" iroks on stock shafts in my 44. now i am running yukons. i wheel some serious shit too. but i am not stupid with the skinny

[Sycotik Skier]

well here's my thing. right now a lot of my use of skinny pedal is because I'm carb'd and its the only way to keep it running when off camber. I'm looking into either TBI'ing my 305 or even replacing it with a tbi 350 or an LT1. I think when I get the carb problem fixed i'll be able to finesse it more. I have every intention of eventually getting alloys. I'm just curious if I'm going to need them right off the bat, I don't want to be snapping axles or u joints every time I take the jeep out.

[Sycotik Skier]

Ragnorox, is that a passenger or drivers drop 60. IIRC newer dodges are drivers drop and I need passenger.

[justin'sbig7]

i have the tbi 350 in my rig. its a nice setup. i wouldnt worry too much about breaking stuff, d44's are holding up to similar setups. remember too, a d60 is gonna lose a lot of ground clearance cause it is a huge differential. i wouldnt run 60's unless you plan on goin to at least 38's otherwise its gonna be like havin a snowplow

[Ragnorox]

Yup drivers

[Deadman 94 xj]

Here's an idea. Keep your D30, truss it, and put on a "Ruff Stuff" dif cover to keep axle deflection to a minimum. This will help big time with your R&P.

Then run a set of these: http://rcvperformance.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=38

You'll have a solid axle with the clearance benefits of the D30.

Then upgrade your steering accordingly.

It's a bit pricy though.

Edit: Actually it's only a little more $$ than a set of chromo shafts and CTM joints.

[Sycotik Skier]

yeah that's a pretty sweet set up and somewhat reasonably priced. One of my biggest problems with swapping axles is I don't want to go to much bigger than thirty sevens with out linking it and thats a lot of work i don't want to do during the beginning of spring. I don't want to upgrade to 1 tons yet because of huge diffs and as mentioned it'd be a boat anchor. And in case nobody has noticed the price of tires jumps pretty quick from 37 and under and anything bigger than 37's.

Does this make sense?

[mxg342]

Makes perfect sense to me. Hence the reason I run 36" Iroks and D44's.

[Sycotik Skier]

Well I was headed out to McConnell's mills on saturday hoping to do a little climbing and rapelling. As I was pulling off 422 into the park I heard my engine making bad bad bad noises. I have a really bad knock. Yes there's sufficient oil in it. It looks as though my motor is junk. I'll have more updates of what went wrong when i get the motor out and torn apart. Looks like I'm finally getting a tbi 350.

[Deadman 94 xj]

Looks like I'm finally getting a tbi 350.

I love it!

When the average man might consider throwing in the towel for a honda... UPGRADE!! :026:

[Macabre]

Well I was headed out to McConnell's mills on saturday hoping to do a little climbing and rapelling. As I was pulling off 422 into the park I heard my engine making bad bad bad noises. I have a really bad knock. Yes there's sufficient oil in it. It looks as though my motor is junk. I'll have more updates of what went wrong when i get the motor out and torn apart. Looks like I'm finally getting a tbi 350.

Was that your Jeep sitting at Advance (I think) on Route 8 last Saturday. Thought I saw a for sale sign.

Anyway... 350.. Huzzah!

[highlandercj-7]

There are a few good deals on 350 TBI engines on CL rite now. Don't forget if you do the waggy D44's you will also need wheels unless you want to convert to 5 lug on the waggy front. If that is the case a ScoutII D44 rear and a Waggy D44 rear are the same width at 58" wm to wm. The benifit there is if you want to stay 5 lug get the scout if you want to go 6 lug get the waggy. If your looking to go with a high steer conversion look for a 76-77 waggy D44 front they have the flat top knuckles and right hand drop. If you want to convert to 5 lug some ford junk bolts right on. Jeepgod did a nice write up on that.

[CESCO]

what ever you decide, stay away from Yukon axles and joints.... I have them now and I am not happy with them. yeah they replace them under warranty but it sucks to be broke down. just my .02

[Deadman 94 xj]

Randy's is coming out with a new line of American made "Hardcore" shafts in a couple months. They beat WARN and a few others in the stress tests. They're supposed to be the strongest alloy yet!

CESCO, the thing about yukon is you never know what you get with them. Their shafts have two different ratings,one being for stock applications (1541H). I've found that some vendors will list them as 4340 when they're not. Either way I'd stay away...

[mxg342]

what ever you decide, stay away from Yukon axles and joints.... I have them now and I am not happy with them. yeah they replace them under warranty but it sucks to be broke down. just my .02


Brian,

you wouldn't wheel an old bronco would you?

Yukon gave me one set and said that's it.

[CESCO]

Brian,

you wouldn't wheel an old bronco would you?

Yukon gave me one set and said that's it.

yep that's me. lets just say that they have replaced a few more for me.

[mxg342]

yep that's me. lets just say that they have replaced a few more for me.


Pete Magill has told me all about the mess you've been through.

[CESCO]

that is why I will not recommend Yukon axles or joints. I am going to be running Alloy USA and CTM's in the very new future.

[Deadman 94 xj]

Alloy-USA went out of business. Omix-ADA bought the name and is not honoring the warranty.

Ten Factory and National Drivetrain have been honoring the Alloy-USA warranty, Ten officially and National as an act of good faith

[80glasscj]

i got the ten factory shafts for mine now, pretty happy with them so far but not really put them to the test YET.

[CESCO]

Alloy-USA went out of business. Omix-ADA bought the name and is not honoring the warranty.

Ten Factory and National Drivetrain have been honoring the Alloy-USA warranty, Ten officially and National as an act of good faith

good to know... I thought that I read somewhere yesterday that OmiADA was honoring the warranty.. I will have to try and find that again and read it to see what made me think that.. I'll post a link if I find it.

[CESCO]

i got the ten factory shafts for mine now, pretty happy with them so far but not really put them to the test YET.

get your ass up here and we will put them and your body armor to the test:026:

[CESCO]

I found the link... hopefully this works

http://www.alloyusa.com/faq.html

[Sycotik Skier]

yeah that was my jeep sitting in front of advance (Thats my second job) I threw a for sale sign on it to see what kinda offers I'd get. I had a ton of people stop in the eight hours it was sitting there. I drove home after work and loaded up the climbing gear and thats when the motor went. I think that was my jeeps way of telling me not to sell it.

regarding the upgrade. that's the way i justify upgrading my jeep. TBI is something I have been talking about doing for the last two years. In the last month or so I've gotten serious about doing it. I've talked to junkyards about my options ranging from converting my 305 to TBI, a whole TBI 305, a whole TBI 350 or even an LT1 or LS1. I figure a 305 is more than sufficient but I like to make a lot of noise and it's not much more expensive to get a 350 versus a 305. I'm staying away from the lt1's and ls1's because of the complexity of wiring.

Wiring wise, the junkyard I'm planning to buy from said I can pull the wiring harness out of a vehicle along with the computer myself. That'll help me figure out what goes where. Anyone know of any companies that make a harness for my application? I think thatd be easier than splicing and removing unneeded stuff out of the harness and make it significantly easier.

I'm on hold for the axles for the time being due to lack of money and time. I've bumped installing a cage to number 2 on my list because I foresee myself getting into a lot of trouble (fun) when i can get my jeep to run off camber. Depending on how well my axles hold up will decide when i upgrade. I have plans of switching tires to a 35x12.50 LTB in the near future because I'm not a huge fan of my boggers for trail running.

Any insight or tips is greatly appreciated. thanks guys

[mxg342]

The wiring won't be that bad. The TBI harness is not completely seperate from the engine harness but it is close.

www.binderplanet.com (http://www.binderplanet.com)
injection tech forums will be your friend. They have full blown wiring diagrams that explain a lot of the information that you'll need to do. Read over the majority of the stuff and post up any questions and I'll try and help you out.

When I converted my 360, I ended up cutting all of the connectors off the wires. I marked each wire as to what it went to. I mounted the computer under the dash and used the oval hole to run the wiring through then I mounted all of the sensors. I was able to shorten/lengthen the wires as needed. You'll want a lot of shrink tube and a good solder gun. It took me about a week to wire mine working a couple hours a night in the garage.

[2002wranglerX]

Painless also makes a harness specifically for putting a tbi smallblock in a cj.

[80glasscj]

when i had my cj i had a 350 in it. i had the same problems with the carb until i got a holley truck avenger after that it was a totally different animal. it would run great through the worst of trail conditions. i know you got your mind set on a swap, but i think a buddy of mine still has 1 of those carbs 4 sale cheap. then with no motor issues you can work on the cage and your biggest problem in my opinion axles. i know you said that this motor might be trashed but it might be a lot cheaper to fix than swap.

[highlandercj-7]

350 tpi 500.00
http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/pts/1135253209.html

350 TBI 62k 275.00!

62,000 miles, trottle body,call dave 724-448-2396

http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/pts/1134349318.html

93 350 tbi

http://pittsburgh.craigslist.org/pts/1132599052.html

there's a ton of them on pit cl lately

[Sycotik Skier]

I'm fairy certain the motor is junk. If all goes according to plan I'll have it out tomorrow or sunday and start pulling it apart to see whats making all this noise.

80glasscj- You're the first person I've heard actually liked the truck avenger. I spent most of last summer asking everyone that would listen to me about what carb's they are running and I heard a lot of bad things about the truck avenger. I did a bit more research into swapping over to TBI at work tonight and the money is adding up. I can be swayed away from swapping motors if I found a carb for a good price but i'm willing to bet my current motor is junk.

[Sycotik Skier]

Rod thanks for all the input. It's greatly appreciated!

[justin'sbig7]

i had a 305 tbi in my cj7 at first... it was a turd. i put a 350 in and the difference is amazing. the tbi is not all that complex either

[gonecheenin]

In my 4.0 YJ, I run a D44 front with custom cut inner Yukon 4340 shafts & GM style outer 4340 stubs (all verified by the 4340 casting's on the yokes, I the same 1541 garbage problem in the past!) & Yukon super joints turning 38.5x15.50 Boggers & I do @ times have a heavy right foot (only when needed, but when needed I generally don't back off)

I full circle clipped the joints & checked my yoke clearances @ full lock both ways

So far Zero problems, even the castings are better then the ones I had for my Bluggy back in the day (had trouble fitting those ones through the chevy steering knuckles)

That said, had I been able to find tuned inner shafts from Superior or Alloy USA/Ten factory when I bought mine, thats the way I would have gone. The simple reason for that is if they fail, the Yukon "straight" shafts will most likely break at the reduced diameter spline cuts taking expensive locker parts with them since thats the weakest point.

I do intend to buy higher quality alloys in the future & retain my Yukons as trail spares (that way I don't have to duck out of running hard trails just because I have my spares in)




As for the TBI fuel injection, I have a stand alone modified TBI harness (out of a 89' 4.3 S-10, but I believe it will work for most any late 80's/early 90's TBI GM engine), a computor for said harness (Think all you need is a V-8 PROM to use it) & a P5001 TBI fuel pump with fittings. I bought that stuff back when I was planning to do a TBI conversion on my old Bluggy. I may be willing to sell that stuff if your interested.

[dan58]

Randy's is coming out with a new line of American made "Hardcore" shafts in a couple months. They beat WARN and a few others in the stress tests. They're supposed to be the strongest alloy yet!

CESCO, the thing about yukon is you never know what you get with them. Their shafts have two different ratings,one being for stock applications (1541H). I've found that some vendors will list them as 4340 when they're not. Either way I'd stay away...


Randy's bought out Warn's shaft line. They're just reselling Warn shafts.

Get your stuff from a reputable dealer. Yukon fronts and Spicer shafts are going into their third full season of beatings. No issues yet.

[dan58]

Here's an idea. Keep your D30, truss it, and put on a "Ruff Stuff" dif cover to keep axle deflection to a minimum. This will help big time with your R&P.

Then run a set of these: http://rcvperformance.com/store/catalog/product_info.php?products_id=38
.

Those are TJ only. Not CJ.

[Sycotik Skier]

gone cheenin- if you're planning on selling that stuff let me know a price. I haven't pulled my motor apart yet to see what failed but if I can fix it rather inexpensively and TBI it then thats the route i'd take.

Thanks again to all who have helped me out!

[Deadman 94 xj]

Randy's bought out Warn's shaft line. They're just reselling Warn shafts.

Get your stuff from a reputable dealer. Yukon fronts and Spicer shafts are going into their third full season of beatings. No issues yet.


No, they're producing a new line of American made "hardcore" shafts. Supposedly they're still in production and will be available in a couple months. They tested them and they actually failed a few hundred foot pounds after Warn and a few others. I got my info from somebody that witnessed the testing.

Good call on the TJ only longfields, that one slipped by me.

[gonecheenin]

gone cheenin- if you're planning on selling that stuff let me know a price. I haven't pulled my motor apart yet to see what failed but if I can fix it rather inexpensively and TBI it then thats the route i'd take.

I'll shoot ya' a PM

[dan58]

No, they're producing a new line of American made "hardcore" shafts. Supposedly they're still in production and will be available in a couple months. They tested them and they actually failed a few hundred foot pounds after Warn and a few others. I got my info from somebody that witnessed the testing.

Good call on the TJ only longfields, that one slipped by me.

Again, they are not a "new" line of axleshafts. They are just the old Warn stuff.


Since Randy's purchased the Warn axle division, they now have two 4340 Yukon lines - their regular and what used to be Warn. They decided to call this new line 'hardcore' because it uses the premium USA made forgings, like Superior, Dutchman and etc.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=756229&highlight=yukon+hardcore

Read post 12.

And again.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=770248&highlight=yukon+hardcore

[Deadman 94 xj]

One is from January saying the shafts were out. The other is March talking about how the shafts will soon be out... Something doesn't add up to me because I spoke to Randy's `2 weeks ago and was told that the shafts were still in production and they'd be out, worst case, 2-3 months. I was also told that the "new" hardcore shafts were treated differently and would surpass anything out there now.

Either somebody is confusing Yukon's lines or there's a bunch of BS going around.

[dan58]

Some shafts are out. Read the post by waynehartwig. I've bought stuff from him, and he knows his stuff. It would make zero sense for Randy's to introduce another USA-made line on top of the Warn line they just bought. The Warn line was very limited, so the "new" stuff will just be new sizes. I don't believe Warn made any D60 shafts, just hubs.

Proper heat treating is proper heat treating. They still aren't going to touch Longfield, CTM, or Spidertrax shafts in terms of strength.

[Deadman 94 xj]

Some shafts are out. Read the post by waynehartwig. I've bought stuff from him, and he knows his stuff. It would make zero sense for Randy's to introduce another USA-made line on top of the Warn line they just bought. The Warn line was very limited, so the "new" stuff will just be new sizes. I don't believe Warn made any D60 shafts, just hubs.

Proper heat treating is proper heat treating. They still aren't going to touch Longfield, CTM, or Spidertrax shafts in terms of strength.


Understood. Here is where I was getting my info. I probably screwed it up again. :biggrin:

http://www.naxja.org/forum/showthread.php?t=984717&page=2

Post 34 - on.

[CESCO]

got my axles back the other day from yukon.. not sure what they sent me. the outer stubs are machined alot nicer than the old ones and the inner shaft does not have that wax coating on it.. I guess I will put them in for now and see how long they will last. they told me on the phone that the yukon outer's are stronger than the warns.. i don't know what to think of that

[80glasscj]

got my axles back the other day from yukon.. not sure what they sent me. the outer stubs are machined alot nicer than the old ones and the inner shaft does not have that wax coating on it.. I guess I will put them in for now and see how long they will last. they told me on the phone that the yukon outer's are stronger than the warns.. i don't know what to think of that

i give them 1 trip:overkill:

[CESCO]

Ahh Cmon man... give yukon a little more credit than that...



or was you talking about the driver:unibrow: you know I would just be trying to follow you:101:

[Sycotik Skier]

well i went to the junkyard saturday. I'll have a TBI 350 for my heep on wedneday. Hopefully I'll have everything ready to go for the first outback adventure.

I'm getting a wiring harness, computer, and the complete engine from the junkyard. I know i need a fuel pump. Holley makes two models for fuel injected vehicles. Does anyone know which model it is that i need and now much fuel pressure and volume I need to look for?
I know to make this engine work i'll need
oxygen sensor and weld in bung for my exhaust
fuel pump for EFI
engine
computer
harness
fluids

Is there anything else that I'm forgetting?

[mxg342]

I'm pretty sure these are Advance Auto part numbers


Fuel Pump E2182
O2 Sensor 12014
Weld Ring for O2 sensor 534-49
Fuel Pump Blockoff Plate 1516

[Sycotik Skier]

is that an inline or intank fuel pump? i wrote the numbers down and I'll take a look when i go to work tomorrow (I work at Advance Auto)

[justin'sbig7]

i think that is an inline fuel pump. i will try to find the part # for the one i run, it is an inline that is specific for gm tbi. runs about $120 from advance auto. if you need a hand with anything, let me know i'd be glad to help. i have already been through all of this lol!

[mxg342]

It's a frame pump off of a Ford van I think.

www.binderplanet.com (http://www.binderplanet.com) is where I found to use this one.

The TBI unit is regulated at the throttle body. You will need a return.

http://www.binderplanet.com/forums/showthread.php?t=45292

http://i22.photobucket.com/albums/b344/mxg342/Jeep%20Work%20Winter%202007/100_0549.jpg

[CESCO]

if you want an in tank pump get one for a mustang. they should only be around $65.. not sure what kind of pressure is required for your set up but i think it will do around 60psi

[mxg342]

GM TBI units require 12-15 psi.

[CESCO]

will the regulator handle the high psi pumps? I guess I probably answered my own question, if you are using a ford van pump, it will.

[Sycotik Skier]

the fuel pump i had been looking at is a Holley inline for TBI. it's like $150. I'm trying to stay away from intank just because I don't want to drop my tank until i can afford to buy a 16 gallon tank and the steel to make a skid for it. I was too busy at work tonight to run those part numbers but i can try tomorrow since i'm off. I'll have the engine tomorrow afternoon.

Justin I might just have to take you up on that offer. unfortunately tomorrow is my only night off. I'm working both jobs thursday friday. I'm at advance all day saturday and sunday