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View Full Version : Welder - Pick me one



jackb1
03-17-2009, 01:19 PM
Ok, time to get a new welder. I've been working with a Lincoln SP-135 for the past few years and although I really like it and the portability it offers (being 110v), I'm running into a need for more amps, more often. That, and I've never actually used it except in my own garage anyway, so the 110v isn't much of an advantage.

I am on a budget here, but I would like to get something I'll never have to upgrade again. If I can keep the price to < $1000ish, that is my best-case scenario but I might be willing to spend more if it makes good long-term sense.

I generally weld 1/8-3/16 mild steel but I'm running into 1/2 more often and recently took on a project with aluminum so my required amps have been going up. I'm just a recreational user but I try to buy quality and only buy once when I buy anthing big.

I would LIKE to get a model with a continuously variable amp selector and need to be able to convert for aluminum (probably a spool gun). I looked at TSC today and they have a Hobart with a switch for use with a spool gun... WTF? Does it just stop the feed from spinning to save it from wear?

I'm open to all suggestions, so speak up!

MF Steve!
03-17-2009, 01:26 PM
Lincoln Power MIG. Has an all aluminum drive system, spool gun provisions, and variable output.

jackb1
03-17-2009, 01:40 PM
I figured you would have some input, didn't expect it would be so speedy. I'll check it out now...

OverkillZJ
03-17-2009, 01:42 PM
I've been happy with my hobart, but it's a 4-position selector. From everything everyone says, you really can't seem to go wrong with Miller or Lincoln.

wozz
03-17-2009, 02:45 PM
Have you looked at the Millers that can be pluged into 110 or 220?

jackb1
03-17-2009, 03:17 PM
Have you looked at the Millers that can be pluged into 110 or 220?


Yes, and it is one of the ones I like but I'm concerned it isn't powerful enough...

Lincoln
Power Mig 215 $1450 250 Amp (max)
Power Mig 255C $1950 300
Power Mig 255XT $3100 w/spoolgun 300

Miller
212 $1450 210 Amp
212 w/spoolgun $2310
DVI2 (110 and 220v) $1300 175 Amp
DVI2 w/spoolgun $1910

I think I'm leaning towards the Lincoln 215 and buy the cheapest $200 spoolgun.


.

Sycotik Skier
03-17-2009, 06:15 PM
we have lincoln power mig 255's at work and I like them. Andy (aman-fred) has more experience with them than i do

MF Steve!
03-17-2009, 07:31 PM
Why not the 180 machine? Don't think it can handle the aluminum duty?

jackb1
03-17-2009, 08:03 PM
we have lincoln power mig 255's at work and I like them. Andy (aman-fred) has more experience with them than i do

I'm not sure what the difference is between the 255C and 255XT but I don't think either is something I'm willing to spend the money on. I could be talked into it, but I just don't see me ever needing that much power.


Why not the 180 machine? Don't think it can handle the aluminum duty?

It's more my do it once right attitude than anything. I don't want to be held back by the welder later on. The 180 is plenty for me now but I don't want to regret it later. As for the aluminum, I'm only doing 1/8", so 180 amps should be about right but if I like working with it, I don't want to be held back by the smaller welder. I DO like the price of the 180 though

MF Steve!
03-17-2009, 08:40 PM
You're more than welcome to try out my 180. I like it a lot more than the Miller/Hobart, just as a personal preference.

jackb1
03-17-2009, 09:07 PM
Thanks. I'm sure I'll like any of the Lincolns. I loved my 135 so I assume I'll like the bigger/better Lincolns even more. There is a welding store near me on Rt. 8 near the turnpike I'm going to stop at this week. I'll price out the 180+cart and 215 and see how they compare.

There's no disadvantage to a bigger unit is there?

96greenxjjeep
03-17-2009, 09:14 PM
these are the ones that we have at school and they are awesome, they do all great.
http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.aspx?p=62519

jackb1
03-17-2009, 09:27 PM
You're more than welcome to try out my 180

I don't need to do that, but can you weld 1/4" in one pass with gas-MIG? The specs say it will only do 3/16 gas and 1/4" flux-core. That seems a little weak to me.

Did I mention I like the price of this one. I want it to work.



these are the ones that we have at school and they are awesome, they do all great.
http://www.mylincolnelectric.com/Catalog/equipmentdatasheet.aspx?p=62519

Damn! It does everything...

Processes
Stick, DC TIG, Pulsed DC TIG, MIG, Pulsed MIG, Flux-Cored


It's also $5,000. For that price, they better be nice. Way out of my price range.

96greenxjjeep
03-17-2009, 09:31 PM
yea thats why are school only has three of them and the rest are lincoln tig and migs
but they are super nice.

MF Steve!
03-17-2009, 09:36 PM
I don't need to do that, but can you weld 1/4" in one pass with gas-MIG? The specs say it will only do 3/16 gas and 1/4" flux-core. That seems a little weak to me.

Did I mention I like the price of this one. I want it to work.

Most of the parts I've fabricated have been 1/4" plate, tube, etc. (control arms, crossmembers, bumpers.) I've welded an incredible amount of it, all with superior penetration. Even 1/2" thick clevis hangers to 1/4" plate with no problem...most has already been trail tested. If you look closely in some of my fab. pictures, you can see the undercut from plenty of heat.

So to answer your question, the machine is underrated. It can handle it, I wouldn't bullshit you. The machine I have does a hell of a job for an $800 price tag!

jackb1
03-17-2009, 09:53 PM
Ok, sold on the one I can afford! $800, is that with cart? We're talking about this machine, right? http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=256723-1703-K2481-1&lpage=none

MF Steve!
03-17-2009, 10:02 PM
Ok, sold on the one I can afford! $800, is that with cart? We're talking about this machine, right? http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=256723-1703-K2481-1&lpage=none

The machine sold at Lowes is the ProMIG, not the same as the PowerMIG. It doesn't have the solid aluminum drive block system, or the spool gun provisions. This is the one you want:

Lincoln PowerMIG 180C, P/N: K2473-1, accepts optional Magnum 100SG spool gun $738:

http://www.weldingmart.com/Qstore/p003439.htm

Lincoln Magnum 100SG spool gun $193.73:

http://www.weldingmart.com/Qstore/p003440.htm

I'd call them and order...they might make a deal with you if you buy both at once. They're good people to deal with.

jackb1
03-17-2009, 10:25 PM
I'm a jackass and didn't notice the difference, Pro Mig, Power Mig. Thanks. I'm going to give a local supplier a chance at the business first. I'll probably order in the next few days either way.

MF Steve!
03-17-2009, 10:53 PM
I've bought most of my stuff online. Free shipping or no tax...either works out nicely. Welding Mart is good to deal with, as is GTSwelds.com They're a PA vendor, so you'll have to pay tax, but you'll get your purchases quickly since they're not shipping very far. Good luck...I wanna see the spool in action!

OverkillZJ
03-18-2009, 01:11 AM
Welding Mart has awesome customer service from my one experience, if that helps any.

RedRaider
03-18-2009, 02:33 AM
I got a miller 180amp w/ autoset that makes it real easy to change settings fo wire size and thickness but it also has manual mode and it's spool gun compatible if I ever go there.

jackb1
03-18-2009, 08:45 AM
The sad thing is I only have a few dozen 1" welds to do in Aluminum and that set me rolling towards a new welder. I'm sure I could have gotten by and done the 1/8" Al with my 135 but I ordered the wrong drive rollers (same mistake I made here with Pro/Power, I have a Pro but ordered for SP). I'd had enough and wanted to upgrade for a while anyway.

How long did the shipping take from welding mart? I'm trying to deck the front of my Jon boat for opening day (4-18) and it will play in my decision

jackb1
03-18-2009, 08:07 PM
Forget the shipping question... Just ordered it locally. $1,167 for the 180C, spoolgun, cart and 80# tank. I could have done better online but I'll have it in 2 days and drive by the place 2x a day, so I won't mind stopping in when I need help.

How big of a breaker do I need to install for this?

LordAthens
03-18-2009, 09:48 PM
30A 3 wire 240v, min #10's depending on the distance from the panel.

jackb1
03-22-2009, 12:15 PM
I put in a 50A just to be sure I wouldn't be blowing a fuse all the time.

Steve, you wanted to know about the spoolgun... It seems to work nicely but I can't use it very well. I'm sticking the aluminum together ok, but it looks like hell. At least it grinds down easily. You're welcome to try it out anytime you want.

MF Steve!
03-22-2009, 12:33 PM
I have no experience with aluminum...but its something I'd like to learn. I've read into it some, but never had a chance to lay a bead. I believe you need to move very quickly with the spool gun to get a decent looking bead.

highlandercj-7
03-22-2009, 07:26 PM
Hobart Iron Man 250

jackb1
03-23-2009, 09:41 AM
I believe you need to move very quickly with the spool gun to get a decent looking bead.

You're right, at least from what I've read. High Amps, high speed. I just can't do it very well. The problem I'm running into, is finding the happy place between melting the existing Al and getting penitration, but still have enough wire to form a puddle and not burn through. I'm also working with primarily 1/16" Al, so that makes it a lot harder. I think 1/8 or 3/16 would be pretty decent to work with.



So this is what I picked up on Friday afternoon:

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q294/jeepgod01/Other/IMG00030-20090320-1716.jpg


And this is part of my small project I wanted to weld aluminum for. I'm decking the front of my small jon boat.

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q294/jeepgod01/Other/IMG00034-20090322-2019.jpg

http://i139.photobucket.com/albums/q294/jeepgod01/Other/IMG00035-20090322-2020.jpg


Thanks for the help. I'm happy with what I got. Luckily, I'm so bad at welding aluminum I wouldn't know if the welder is crap anyway. I'm going to switch it over to weld steel soon, just to test it out.

13below0
03-23-2009, 01:15 PM
Are you using straight argon when your doing your alum.? Or you running mix like you normally would for steel etc? If you want truly nice alum. welds then...... Well you should have bought a tig machine. Spool guns have come along ways even in the last few years.

13below0
03-23-2009, 01:20 PM
Oh post some better pics of what your working with. Alum has to be VERY clean. If you think its clean, do it again! clean everything then re-do what ever part your working on right befor you start. They say it only takes 10 min. for alum. to start oxidation (sp) and that will make a mess for you.

jackb1
03-23-2009, 02:05 PM
Well you should have bought a tig machine.

I'd love to have one even if just to learn it but as you might be able to see in the pictures, I'm very low on space. I've got to walk inside the boat to get from one end of my garage to the other while I'm working. Plus, they're $$$ and this was already more than I could afford right now. Maybe in a few years.

I am using 100% Argon and a stainless steel brush to clean the weld area within 30 seconds of welding. (I'm just giving it a quick 5-10 strokes with the brush, Al is otherwise pretty clean) I've read to use acetone to clean it also... haven't tried it yet, don't have any acetone. I should be able to finish the area for the chair support tomorrow night. I'll take a few pictures with a real camera when I'm working to show my crap welds.