Originally Posted by ridgerunner97
If I'm law abiding and have nothing to hide why should I volunteer info that I am not required to? Criminals are the ones who lie when asked if they have weapons, drugs, etc.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...5833865&hl=en#
A bad day of wheelin' is still better than a good day at work
You have a jeep, that's so cute so does barbie.
'89 Toyota P/U 3.0 5 speed
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This.
I am always polite and honest. I have been given a warning or cited for a lesser violation in the vast majority of instances. Seriously, the cop is just a guy trying to do a job. If you are compliant with requests, non argumentative and pleasant to deal with in general it should make the officer's job that much easier. If you come across as articulate as opposed to belligerent they may be inclined to pick some one else to F&#k with. If you are in a pissy mood because the officer has pulled you over for breaking the law you don't have to be mad at them, it's not their fault. If you think the speed limit should be 110 mph then get the law changed.
[FONT=Arial][COLOR=paleturquoise]If everyone was just like you then what would we need you for?[/COLOR][/FONT]
There are many things that you do every day that are not required by law. This allows civilization to exist. Just because the law doesn't mandate something doesn't mean it's not still a good idea.
[FONT=Arial][COLOR=paleturquoise]If everyone was just like you then what would we need you for?[/COLOR][/FONT]
I don't disagree with this. I do however feel that the more rights that we bend for this reason or that and the next thing we know they will be gone.
It's not that informing an officer of your ccw is not mentioned in the wording of the law, it is in fact stated that we are not required to disclose this information.
A bad day of wheelin' is still better than a good day at work
You have a jeep, that's so cute so does barbie.
'89 Toyota P/U 3.0 5 speed
custom bumpers, sliders
33x13.50 Super Swamper LTB
'03 Dodge Dakota 32" BFG AT DD
Not in Pennsylvania, no.
2000 XJ SE - 3" Rusty's Lift, Full-Length Roof Rack, Manik Brushguard
So your going to get irratated and take it out on me as an officer if I don't tell you I have a gun in the car? Great so you are just like most cops. You enforce your feelings despite what the law says. You can't treat me differently because I have a gun and didn't tell you just because you think I should have.
Ahh, that's not most cops Mykal
WTF is with all the cop bashing in this thread? Somebody has their panties in a bunch and it's starting to stink.
The article said Michigan. Holy fawk.
Heat the hole freeze the shaft
Just like any profession- there's good cops and bad cops... That said, I think it's your choice whether to state it or not, and that'd probably depend on the situation. The fact that some officers treat you like a hippy illegal immigrant for carrying (which is a RIGHT) bugs the hell out of me, though.
I have noticed a common thing in all the post by people saying not tell them cause it violates their civil rights....it's that most of them start with every time I get pulled over. Here is an interesting thing to think about...my civil right to drive in a safe environment with out worrying about getting hurt in an accident caused by someone breaking a traffic law they think is stupid. First you are being pulled over for doing something your not. Next while you don't have to disclose the info it might go a long way in smoothing out the situation your are in. You say you don't tell them cause you don't have too....but the officer doesn't know that you are just exercising some right because at the time he pulls you over your a criminal who has shown no respect for one law and may not have a problem breaking others.
Now I have been pulled over and the one common thing about the times it happened was, I was guilty of breaking the law. So next time you get pulled over remember you have already shown a certain amount of disregard for societies rules and they have no way of knowing just have far that goes with you.
I see where you're coming from, but that "slippery slope" argument scares me a bit. I'm sorry, but if I changed lanes and forgot to use my turn signal and get pulled over, that does NOT make ame a threat to society. Hell I got pulled over for an "illegal lift and tires" a few months ago, neither of which were illegal. I'm such a threat...
Last edited by OverkillZJ; 10-05-2010 at 10:42 AM.
Eh, I'm going to get more coffee.
I just get tired of hearing the same stuff all the time about how we're all screwed by the police. I've been on both sides of that argument at times I guess but it gets old. Most cops have a job to do just like anybody else. If I'm a cop and deal with idiots all day I'm going to be a little irritable. Especially since all I want is my paycheck and you have me out here pulling you over for whatever.
As far as the carry thing, here in PA you're not required to throw the firearm at the LEO upon his arival to your vehicle. That's great. I agree that it's usually best to keep my mouth shut when being pulled over. Less is more in situations like this. Let the man do his job, and go home. If he askes if I'm carrying I say yes. It's doubtful that he's going to take my firearm and beat me with it. Granted that can happen but so can a lot of other things. You can either live in fear of those things or not.
Heat the hole freeze the shaft
Ahh, that's not most cops Mykal
WTF is with all the cop bashing in this thread? Somebody has their panties in a bunch and it's starting to stink.
The article said Michigan. Holy fawk.
I wouldn't call it cop bashing. It is just that some cops do not know the letter of the law when it comes to civilians and firearms.
Here is an example from my personal experience. A couple of years ago I dressed as a cheesy TV cop for Halloween. I had an unloaded pellet gun that looks like a 1911 in a holster for my real 1911. Some off duty cop started giving me all kinds of grief, stating that I could not carry a gun like that even if it was real. Mind you I was at a costume party in a bar. His wife and he were the only one's in the bar not in costume. I wound up removing the gun to appease him because I didn't want him calling the cops to the bar and causing trouble. He was completely wrong and out of line. I will never let someone bully me like that again just because he has a badge in his wallet.
So I was doing nothing wrong and was hassled all night(he eyeballed me for the rest of the night) and made me very uncomfortable. I told my buddy who is an undercover narcotics detective, the story the next day and his response was that he was probably some rookie on a power trip. He also stated that he never badged people in public unless a felony was being committed.
Since the article is from MI it really has no relevance here. Stand up for your rights before they are gone.
A bad day of wheelin' is still better than a good day at work
You have a jeep, that's so cute so does barbie.
'89 Toyota P/U 3.0 5 speed
custom bumpers, sliders
33x13.50 Super Swamper LTB
'03 Dodge Dakota 32" BFG AT DD
Not saying I don't disagree with this, but in America, we are **supposed** to be innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. Almost no branch of government or law enforcement abides by this. I think that 95% of police need a hell of a lot more training. They need to learn to keep their cool in tough situations, not automatically pull out their tazer because you are trying to tell them that they are violating your rights. I do keep a tape recorder in my Jeep and always tell the cop, as respectfully as possible, that I am recording this for both of our protection. I have no problem with law enforcement, I have a lot of family in it. I just think they are generally under trained. Just my $.02
"If guns don't kill people, people kill people, does that mean toasters don't toast toast, toast toasts toast?"
I can respect that. I have a family member that's a cop down in washington PA and a couple of friends on with the city here. The friends fit the profile of the robocop wana be rookies. We don't talk anymore because they've all decided that they can't associate with people that don't wear the uniform. I know an oldtimer on the job that knows my friends. His take on it is that the robocop wantabees are a nuisance and don't get a whole lot respect except from the fellow noobies.
My point is, yes there are assholes that abuse their postions but it's my opinion that the majority do not. It's easy to get pissed off at the ones that do and lable them all but it's just not right. My family member would give anybody the shirt off his back and looks at the job as just that, a job. He's just a guy like you and me.
I can understand the protection of rights aguments when you have people living in fear because of a couple of idiot cops. And I agree that there is abuse but to label all cops the way we do here sometimes is rediculous given my background. I've had my share of run ins myself.
I guess really what I hate is having this forum labled as a bunch of wheelin cop haters given how many times this subject seems to come up.
Heat the hole freeze the shaft
I also believe that if people used more common sense in these types of situations our rights wouldn't be at stake. It's the dumb laws are made that remove our rights. Just like there in MI, I'm sure some idiot ruined it for the rest of them leaving the majority to cater to the idiots.
Heat the hole freeze the shaft
I have been disarmed once. I'm not saying anybody needs to volunteer any info that they don't need to by law -it is your decision to make. I chose to volunteer info and given the circumstance, I think everything turned out better for me having been cordial and voluntary. Had I tried to prove my knowledge of the law and had a hard-on about the situation, I have a strong feeling things would have turned out worse for me. Granted, I still ended up with a huge fine but I'd made a mistake and could have ended up with a lot worse. I recognized my (very honest mistake) and tried to resolve the situation as reasonably as possible. To me, that was volunteering information and I believe it kept me and others I was with from a much worse outcome.
I hope that I don't need to deal with police in that manner again, but for me the decision is clear that if necessary, will politely volunteer the information that I'm carrying (should I choose to carry). Because if I choose to do so, it isn't to prove a point or to prove I know what is legal within the letter of the law. Although it might be legal, I don't see it as prudent. If I chose to carry, then the reason is for self-defense. I for one, don't feel the need to be able to defend myself with deadly force against LEOs and see virtually no benefit to concealing that fact that I'm concealing a weapon.
Last edited by jackb1; 10-05-2010 at 02:30 PM. Reason: typo
Unfortunately, we don't live in a world where police are mindless automatons who can only act within strict letter of the law and are unable to do harm.
We live in a world where police officers can and do hurt people, even when the people have done nothing wrong. I could barely operate my motorcycle to get home after the abuse I was subjected to by the state trooper who saw fit to assault me for simply open carrying because he "didn't like it."
2000 XJ SE - 3" Rusty's Lift, Full-Length Roof Rack, Manik Brushguard
I used to volunteer the info. Never had a problem. Then met up with a younger suburban officer. After dealing with him, I will only do so if asked if I am armed. Because one officer decides to through his wait around, it ruins it for the good ones. And my brother is a LEO. He has given me a lot of hints on what to do in a stop. And most of that is to protect my rights, because he sees what goes down.
Gotta be a special place in heaven for those girls who believe in making a lot of guys happy instead of making one miserable
Free Frank!
Funny. I have had long hair and goatee for close to 18 years and I don't get roughed up by the police.
I smile, be polite, answer questions that they ask. Thank them when they are done writing the citation or whatever. I don't go out of my way to make the interaction any longer than it needs to be. Check your ego at the door, take it, and move on.
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"Freedom is something that dies unless its used" -HST
Yes, if I am going 65 in a 55 I probably am a murderer too.
Your entire post is idiotic, not just what I quoted.
LOL @ DMG
My opinion has nothing to do with ego. I dont carry to look like a bad ass. I dont carry to show it off. It doesnt leave the holster in public unless I intend to fire it. My opinion has everything to do with protecting my rights. There is not a officer in the U.S. thats obligated to protect my rights or my safety. If I dont know my rights and I agree (or I dont protest) then I could get hung out to dry real fast. There are some decent officers out there I dont lump them all together as bad eggs. That doesnt mean that I trust every officer that I come in to contact with though.
I hear ya, I guess I kinda went off on a little tangent there. Almost off topic lol.
What are our rights anyway? Everybody keeps talking about how their rights are going to get stolen, I was just wondering what they are. I only know of the "right to bear arms" regarding this subject. I'm being honest.
For anything else I'd say it's common sense. If you have a permit to carry than you shouldn't be harassed for carrying unless you've done something stupid with the weapon. If a cop asks if you're carrying than you should tell him/her that you are. If he doesn't ask but you feel the need to say so given the circumstances than you should do so. I don't understand what rights we're talking about here.
I can't imagine a cop taking your weapon for carrying, with a permit.
As far as open carrying, I don't understand that concept at all. I guess if you're coming froma range or hunting or something but just day to day open carrying? That wouldn't go over very well in the city. You'd get a lot of unwanted attention and not just from the legal side.
Last edited by Deadman 94 xj; 10-05-2010 at 08:17 PM.
Heat the hole freeze the shaft
I think we are losing our rights because the average non-thinking, TV-addled American is happy to trade freedom for the illusion of security and because the ever-growing government needs to justify its existence.
Nicely said. I can't argue there. I was aiming more toward the reason laws are made in the first place. We don't really have a leg to stand on against the government when we're the cause. Figuratively speaking of course.
Last edited by Deadman 94 xj; 10-05-2010 at 09:01 PM.
Heat the hole freeze the shaft
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