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Pittsburgh Police and Open Carry - Page 3
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Thread: Pittsburgh Police and Open Carry

  1. #51
    PghOffRoad Forum Addict!
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2002wranglerX View Post
    is that tyra banks?
    I think so.

    I don't get this picture, they're protesting bras, but they're wearing bras? Women are confusing
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  2. #52
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    Quote Originally Posted by BUZZINHALFDOZZEN View Post
    Women are confusing
    Understatement of the year! lol

  3. #53
    PghOffRoad Forum Addict! Bird_Flu's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Wrecker View Post
    I heard there was canle light, soft music and you 2 drove off in a Suby station wagon at the end of the night.
    Pffft, HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!
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    Considering that DC voted for Marion Barry after seeing him on video smoking crack with a hooker, I say the less input they have in our system, the better.

  4. #54
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    Quote Originally Posted by tjblair View Post
    I grew up in a state that doesn't have OC or CC.
    What state is that?
    [FONT=Arial][COLOR=paleturquoise]If everyone was just like you then what would we need you for?[/COLOR][/FONT]

  5. #55
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  6. #56
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    I thought OC was a constitutional thing and only the right to conceal was regulated at the state level?
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  7. #57
    Moderator of the DeeDeeDees! Bill's Avatar
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    Each state enacts additional regulations as it sees fit. There are several states out there that prohibit OC.
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  8. #58
    The only part that everyone missed here is....

    Yes you can audio record police while they work, but and this is big....

    You can not record public or it's a felony. So one citizen says hi to a buddie passing by and don't know you just recorded him. Felony with a gun..... Five years min.

  9. #59
    Less posting, more wheeling! notmYJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellyup0389 View Post
    The only part that everyone missed here is....

    Yes you can audio record police while they work, but and this is big....

    You can not record public or it's a felony. So one citizen says hi to a buddie passing by and don't know you just recorded him. Felony with a gun..... Five years min.
    IIRC, The courts have determined that there is no expectation of privacy in a public place, such as a street, concert, mall or other public venue. It is with this comment that I implore you to find case law and/or statute to back up your statement.

    I listened to the audio. I really found no problem with what happened. He had an interaction with the police (as he should have expected), some officers learned something, he didnt get a ticket and walked away with his gun.

    As for people refering to other states laws, who gives a damn. The topic at hand happened in PA. PA laws are all that matter for this topic. As to OC, yeah I do it. I tuck my shirt behind the holster, if I coat on, its concealed. If its warm it out in the open. Its a comfort thing, I dont like sweating against leather on my hip and I find IWB holsers un comfortable. I know the possibilities of being questioned, but I also know my rights. I think that is the biggest difference between people who dont carry or even people who ONLY carry concealed and people who OC. Generally, the OC people know their rights better than many attorneys, police, and DA's.

    I have had a few encounters with police while OC. Most recently was in Castle Shannon, around midnight in my jeep. I was stopped by their DOT guy aka "Commercial Vehicle Enforcement" because my tires stick out (no flares on the front and factory flares on the rear). I was OC and knew he would see it when I went to get my registration out of the glove box, so I informed him when he walked up to the window that I had it, and handed him my LTCF (Its a License To Carry a Firearm. NOT a Concealed carry license, CWP, CCW, etc). He said, "OK, I'll make you a deal, you don't show me yours, and I won't show you mine". I laughed and said, "Deal". I didnt get a ticket, but he did see the humor in that I didn't even try to cover the tires, he mentioned that usually people are just a bit past legal, butI had over half the tire un covered in the front. He asked me to cover them, or keep it in the woods. We had a laugh, he gave my stuff back and that was the end.

    I have OCing for a while and have found that 99% of the people don't even notice and many of the police dont care. At getgo in bethel park at midnight, I can walk in OCing an XD40, get a sandwich and a drink, walk past 4 cops twice, BS with the employee for a min and walk out and nobody says a thing. Talked to a WashCo Sherrif in my front yard last week while OCing and he didn't say a word or even give it a second look. I have walked the south side while OC, and the cultural district downtown and never had a single problem.

    Agree with it or not, everyone can make your own choices and do as YOU see fit. As long as YOU are comfortable with YOUR choices, then I am happy for you. Just don't try to make ME live the way YOU think I should. Even GOD himself can't mess with freewill. So long as what you are doing is within the limits of the laws, I could give a damn less what anyone here does. In fact, I would like to see more people in this country take responsibility for themselves and make their own damn decisions, and quit trying to control everyone else because "they know better". **** that. Do what you want, and worry about you and your own. You see a guy with a gun pointing it at people or raping someone, drop him by any means necessary and move on with your life. If your doing something legal and someone else doesnt like it, to bad. There is no right to feel warm and fuzzy inside when you leave the house. You want to be warm and fuzzy inside, take some Ecstasy.

    /rant

    Guess which person in this pic is me...

    Last edited by notmYJ; 04-24-2012 at 02:05 AM.
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  10. #60
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    ^hear, hear!

  11. #61
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    Quote Originally Posted by notmYJ View Post
    IIRC, The courts have determined that there is no expectation of privacy in a public place, such as a street, concert, mall or other public venue. It is with this comment that I implore you to find case law and/or statute to back up your statement.

    I listened to the audio. I really found no problem with what happened. He had an interaction with the police (as he should have expected), some officers learned something, he didnt get a ticket and walked away with his gun.

    As for people refering to other states laws, who gives a damn. The topic at hand happened in PA. PA laws are all that matter for this topic. As to OC, yeah I do it. I tuck my shirt behind the holster, if I coat on, its concealed. If its warm it out in the open. Its a comfort thing, I dont like sweating against leather on my hip and I find IWB holsers un comfortable. I know the possibilities of being questioned, but I also know my rights. I think that is the biggest difference between people who dont carry or even people who ONLY carry concealed and people who OC. Generally, the OC people know their rights better than many attorneys, police, and DA's.

    I have had a few encounters with police while OC. Most recently was in Castle Shannon, around midnight in my jeep. I was stopped by their DOT guy aka "Commercial Vehicle Enforcement" because my tires stick out (no flares on the front and factory flares on the rear). I was OC and knew he would see it when I went to get my registration out of the glove box, so I informed him when he walked up to the window that I had it, and handed him my LTCF (Its a License To Carry a Firearm. NOT a Concealed carry license, CWP, CCW, etc). He said, "OK, I'll make you a deal, you don't show me yours, and I won't show you mine". I laughed and said, "Deal". I didnt get a ticket, but he did see the humor in that I didn't even try to cover the tires, he mentioned that usually people are just a bit past legal, butI had over half the tire un covered in the front. He asked me to cover them, or keep it in the woods. We had a laugh, he gave my stuff back and that was the end.

    I have OCing for a while and have found that 99% of the people don't even notice and many of the police dont care. At getgo in bethel park at midnight, I can walk in OCing an XD40, get a sandwich and a drink, walk past 4 cops twice, BS with the employee for a min and walk out and nobody says a thing. Talked to a WashCo Sherrif in my front yard last week while OCing and he didn't say a word or even give it a second look. I have walked the south side while OC, and the cultural district downtown and never had a single problem.

    Agree with it or not, everyone can make your own choices and do as YOU see fit. As long as YOU are comfortable with YOUR choices, then I am happy for you. Just don't try to make ME live the way YOU think I should. Even GOD himself can't mess with freewill. So long as what you are doing is within the limits of the laws, I could give a damn less what anyone here does. In fact, I would like to see more people in this country take responsibility for themselves and make their own damn decisions, and quit trying to control everyone else because "they know better". **** that. Do what you want, and worry about you and your own. You see a guy with a gun pointing it at people or raping someone, drop him by any means necessary and move on with your life. If your doing something legal and someone else doesnt like it, to bad. There is no right to feel warm and fuzzy inside when you leave the house. You want to be warm and fuzzy inside, take some Ecstasy.

    /rant

    Fair enough. The Oprah show is over.

  12. #62
    I will look it up, and get back to ya.

    Thanks for "making me work". Without gettn paid , yet again.

    fYI. I only post gun stuff when I Know. I am right, no guessing here.

    I can't look it up on my I pad, it's on my work computer.

  13. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bellyup0389 View Post
    I will look it up, and get back to ya.

    Thanks for "making me work". Without gettn paid , yet again.

    fYI. I only post gun stuff when I Know. I am right, no guessing here.

    I can't look it up on my I pad, it's on my work computer.
    Cue long post:

    5703. Interception, disclosure or use of wire, electronic
    or oral communications.

    Except as otherwise provided in this chapter, a person is
    guilty of a felony of the third degree if he:

    (1) intentionally intercepts, endeavors to intercept,
    or procures any other person to intercept or endeavor to
    intercept any wire, electronic or oral communication;

    (2) intentionally discloses or endeavors to disclose
    to any other person the contents of any wire, electronic or
    oral communication, or evidence derived therefrom, knowing
    or having reason to know that the information was obtained
    through the interception of a wire, electronic or oral
    communication; or

    (3) intentionally uses or endeavors to use the contents
    of any wire, electronic or oral communication, or evidence
    derived therefrom, knowing or having reason to know, that
    the information was obtained through the interception of a
    wire, electronic or oral communication.
    (Oct. 21, 1988, P.L.1000, No.115, eff. imd.)

    5704. Exceptions to prohibition of interception and
    disclosure of communications.

    It shall not be unlawful and no prior court approval shall
    be required under this chapter for:

    (1) An operator of a switchboard, or an officer, agent
    or employee of a provider of wire or electronic communication
    service, whose facilities are used in the transmission of a
    wire communication, to intercept, disclose or use that
    communication in the normal course of his employment while
    engaged in any activity which is a necessary incident to the
    rendition of his service or to the protection of the rights
    or property of the provider of wire or electronic
    communication service. However, no provider of wire or
    electronic communication service shall utilize service
    observing or random monitoring except for mechanical or
    service quality control checks.

    (2) Any investigative or law enforcement officer or any
    person acting at the direction or request of an investigative
    or law enforcement officer to intercept a wire, electronic
    or oral communication involving suspected criminal
    activities, including, but not limited to, the crimes
    enumerated in section 5708 (relating to order authorizing
    interception of wire, electronic or oral communications),
    where:

    (i) (Deleted by amendment).

    (ii) one of the parties to the communication has
    given prior consent to such interception. However, no
    interception under this paragraph shall be made unless
    the Attorney General or a deputy attorney general
    designated in writing by the Attorney General, or the
    district attorney, or an assistant district attorney
    designated in writing by the district attorney, of the
    county wherein the interception is to be made, has
    reviewed the facts and is satisfied that the consent is
    voluntary and has given prior approval for the
    interception; however, such interception shall be subject
    to the recording and record keeping requirements of
    section 5714(a) (relating to recording of intercepted
    communications) and that the Attorney General, deputy
    attorney general, district attorney or assistant district
    attorney authorizing the interception shall be the
    custodian of recorded evidence obtained therefrom;
    (iii) the investigative or law enforcement officer
    meets in person with a suspected felon and wears a
    concealed electronic or mechanical device capable of
    intercepting or recording oral communications. However,
    no interception under this subparagraph may be used in
    any criminal prosecution except for a prosecution
    involving harm done to the investigative or law
    enforcement officer. This subparagraph shall not be
    construed to limit the interception and disclosure
    authority provided for in this subchapter; or
    (iv) the requirements of this subparagraph are met.
    If an oral interception otherwise authorized under this
    paragraph will take place in the home of a nonconsenting
    party, then, in addition to the requirements of
    subparagraph (ii), the interception shall not be
    conducted until an order is first obtained from the
    president judge, or his designee who shall also be a
    judge, of a court of common pleas, authorizing such
    in-home interception, based upon an affidavit by an
    investigative or law enforcement officer that establishes
    probable cause for the issuance of such an order. No
    such order or affidavit shall be required where probable
    cause and exigent circumstances exist. For the purposes
    of this paragraph, an oral interception shall be deemed
    to take place in the home of a nonconsenting party only
    if both the consenting and nonconsenting parties are
    physically present in the home at the time of the
    interception.
    (3) Police and emergency communications systems to
    record telephone communications coming into and going out
    of the communications system of the Pennsylvania Emergency
    Management Agency or a police department, fire department
    or county emergency center, if:
    (i) the telephones thereof are limited to the
    exclusive use of the communication system for
    administrative purposes and provided the communication
    system employs a periodic warning which indicates to the
    parties to the conversation that the call is being
    recorded;
    (ii) all recordings made pursuant to this clause,
    all notes made therefrom, and all transcriptions thereof
    may be destroyed at any time, unless required with regard
    to a pending matter; and
    (iii) at least one nonrecorded telephone line is
    made available for public use at the Pennsylvania
    Emergency Management Agency and at each police
    department, fire department or county emergency center.
    (4) A person, to intercept a wire, electronic or oral
    communication, where all parties to the communication have
    given prior consent to such interception.
    (5) Any investigative or law enforcement officer, or
    communication common carrier acting at the direction of an
    investigative or law enforcement officer or in the normal
    course of its business, to use a pen register, trap and trace
    device or telecommunication identification interception
    device as provided in Subchapter E (relating to pen
    registers, trap and trace devices and telecommunication
    identification interception devices).
    (6) Personnel of any public utility to record telephone
    conversations with utility customers or the general public
    relating to receiving and dispatching of emergency and
    service calls provided there is, during such recording, a
    periodic warning which indicates to the parties to the
    conversation that the call is being recorded.
    (7) A user, or any officer, employee or agent of such
    user, to record telephone communications between himself and
    a contractor or designer, or any officer, employee or agent
    of such contractor or designer, pertaining to excavation or
    demolition work or other related matters, if the user or its
    agent indicates to the parties to the conversation that the
    call will be or is being recorded. As used in this paragraph,
    the terms "user," "contractor," "demolition work," "designer"
    and "excavation work" shall have the meanings given to them
    in the act of December 10, 1974 (P.L.852, No.287), referred
    to as the Underground Utility Line Protection Law; and a one
    call system shall be considered for this purpose to be an
    agent of any user which is a member thereof.
    (8) A provider of electronic communication service to
    record the fact that a wire or electronic communication was
    initiated or completed in order to protect the provider,
    another provider furnishing service toward the completion
    of the wire or electronic communication, or a user of that
    service, from fraudulent, unlawful or abusive use of the
    service.
    (9) A person or entity providing electronic
    communication service to the public to divulge the contents
    of any such communication:
    (i) as otherwise authorized in this section or
    section 5717 (relating to investigative disclosure or
    use of contents of wire, electronic or oral
    communications or derivative evidence);
    (ii) with the lawful consent of the originator or
    any addressee or intended recipient of the communication;
    (iii) to a person employed or authorized, or whose
    facilities are used, to forward the communication to its
    destination; or
    (iv) which were inadvertently obtained by the
    service provider and which appear to pertain to the
    commission of a crime, if such divulgence is made to a
    law enforcement agency.
    A person or entity providing electronic communication service
    to the public shall not intentionally divulge the contents
    of any communication (other than one directed to the person
    or entity, or an agent thereof) while in transmission of
    that service to any person or entity other than an addressee
    or intended recipient of the communication or an agent of
    the addressee or intended recipient.
    (10) Any person:
    (i) to intercept or access an electronic
    communication made through an electronic communication
    system configured so that the electronic communication
    is readily accessible to the general public;
    (ii) to intercept any radio communication which is
    transmitted:
    (A) by a station for the use of the general
    public, or which relates to ships, aircraft, vehicles
    or persons in distress;
    (B) by any governmental, law enforcement, civil
    defense, private land mobile or public safety
    communication system, including police and fire
    systems, readily accessible to the general public;
    (C) by a station operating on an authorized
    frequency within the bands allocated to the amateur,
    citizens band or general mobile radio services; or
    (D) by any marine or aeronautical communication
    system;
    (iii) to engage in any conduct which:
    (A) is prohibited by section 633 of the
    Communications Act of 1934 (48 Stat. 1105, 47 U.S.C.
    553); or
    (B) is excepted from the application of section
    705(a) of the Communications Act of 1934 (47 U.S.C.
    605(a)) by section 705(b) of that act (47 U.S.C.
    605(b)); or
    (iv) to intercept any wire or electronic
    communication the transmission of which is causing
    harmful interference to any lawfully operating station,
    to the extent necessary to identify the source of the
    interference.
    (11) Other users of the same frequency to intercept any
    radio communication made through a system which utilizes
    frequencies monitored by individuals engaged in the
    provisions or use of the system, if the communication is not
    scrambled or encrypted.
    (12) Any investigative or law enforcement officer or
    any person acting at the direction or request of an
    investigative or law enforcement officer to intercept a wire
    or oral communication involving suspected criminal activities
    where the officer or the person is a party to the
    communication and there is reasonable cause to believe that:
    (i) the other party to the communication is either:
    (A) holding a hostage; or
    (B) has barricaded himself and taken a position
    of confinement to avoid apprehension; and
    (ii) that party:
    (A) will resist with the use of weapons; or
    (B) is threatening suicide or harm to others.
    (13) An investigative officer, a law enforcement officer
    or employees of the Department of Corrections for State
    correctional facilities to intercept, record, monitor or
    divulge any telephone calls from or to an inmate in a
    facility under the following conditions:
    (i) The Department of Corrections shall adhere to
    the following procedures and restrictions when
    intercepting, recording, monitoring or divulging any
    telephone calls from or to an inmate in a State
    correctional facility as provided for by this paragraph:
    (A) Before the implementation of this paragraph,
    all inmates of the facility shall be notified in
    writing that, as of the effective date of this
    paragraph, their telephone conversations may be
    intercepted, recorded, monitored or divulged.
    (B) Unless otherwise provided for in this
    paragraph, after intercepting or recording a
    telephone conversation, only the superintendent,
    warden or a designee of the superintendent or warden
    or other chief administrative official or his or her
    designee shall have access to that recording.
    (C) The contents of an intercepted and recorded
    telephone conversation shall be divulged only as is
    necessary to safeguard the orderly operation of the
    facility, in response to a court order or in the
    prosecution or investigation of any crime.
    (ii) So as to safeguard the attorney-client
    privilege, the Department of Corrections shall not
    intercept, record, monitor or divulge any conversation
    between an inmate and an attorney.
    (iii) Persons who are calling in to a facility to
    speak to an inmate shall be notified that the call may
    be recorded or monitored.
    (iv) The Department of Corrections shall promulgate
    guidelines to implement the provisions of this paragraph
    for State correctional facilities.
    (14) An investigative officer, a law enforcement officer
    or employees of a county correctional facility to intercept,
    record, monitor or divulge any telephone calls from or to
    an inmate in a facility under the following conditions:
    (i) The county correctional facility shall adhere
    to the following procedures and restrictions when
    intercepting, recording, monitoring or divulging any
    telephone calls from or to an inmate in a county
    correctional facility as provided for by this paragraph:
    (A) Before the implementation of this paragraph,
    all inmates of the facility shall be notified in
    writing that, as of the effective date of this
    paragraph, their telephone conversations may be
    intercepted, recorded, monitored or divulged.
    (B) Unless otherwise provided for in this
    paragraph, after intercepting or recording a
    telephone conversation, only the superintendent,
    warden or a designee of the superintendent or warden
    or other chief administrative official or his or her
    designee shall have access to that recording.
    (C) The contents of an intercepted and recorded
    telephone conversation shall be divulged only as is
    necessary to safeguard the orderly operation of the
    facility, in response to a court order or in the
    prosecution or investigation of any crime.
    (ii) So as to safeguard the attorney-client
    privilege, the county correctional facility shall not
    intercept, record, monitor or divulge any conversation
    between an inmate and an attorney.
    (iii) Persons who are calling into a facility to
    speak to an inmate shall be notified that the call may
    be recorded or monitored.
    (iv) The superintendent, warden or a designee of
    the superintendent or warden or other chief
    administrative official of the county correctional system
    shall promulgate guidelines to implement the provisions
    of this paragraph for county correctional facilities.
    (15) The personnel of a business engaged in telephone
    marketing or telephone customer service by means of wire,
    oral or electronic communication to intercept such marketing
    or customer service communications where such interception
    is made for the sole purpose of training, quality control
    or monitoring by the business, provided that one party
    involved in the communications has consented to such
    intercept. Any communications recorded pursuant to this
    paragraph may only be used by the business for the purpose
    of training or quality control. Unless otherwise required
    by Federal or State law, communications recorded pursuant
    to this paragraph shall be destroyed within one year from
    the date of recording.
    (16) A law enforcement officer, whether or not certified
    under section 5724 (relating to training), acting in the
    performance of his official duties to intercept and record
    an oral communication between individuals in accordance with
    the following:
    (i) At the time of the interception, the oral
    communication does not occur inside the residence of any
    of the individuals.
    (ii) At the time of the interception, the law
    enforcement officer:
    (A) is operating the visual or audible warning
    system of the law enforcement officer's vehicle
    authorized by 75 Pa.C.S. 4571 (relating to visual
    and audible signals on emergency vehicles) or is
    clearly identifiable as a law enforcement officer;
    (B) is in close proximity to the individuals'
    oral communication;
    (C) is using an electronic, mechanical or other
    device which has been approved under section
    5706(b)(4) (relating to exceptions to prohibitions
    in possession, sale, distribution, manufacture or
    advertisement of electronic, mechanical or other
    devices) to intercept the oral communication, the
    recorder of which is mounted in the law enforcement
    officer's vehicle; and
    (D) informs, as soon as reasonably practicable,
    the individuals identifiably present that he has
    intercepted and recorded the oral communication.
    (iii) As used in this paragraph, the following words
    and phrases shall have the meanings given to them in
    this subparagraph:
    "Law enforcement officer." A member of the
    Pennsylvania State Police or an individual employed as
    a police officer who holds a current certificate under
    53 Pa.C.S. Ch. 21 Subch. D (relating to municipal police
    education and training).
    "Recorder." An electronic, mechanical or other
    device used to store an oral communication on tape or
    on some other comparable medium.
    (July 10, 1981, P.L.227, No.72, eff. 60 days; Dec. 23, 1981,
    P.L.593, No.175, eff. 60 days; Oct. 21, 1988, P.L.1000, No.115,
    eff. imd.; Sept. 26, 1995, 1st Sp.Sess., P.L.1056, No.20, eff.
    60 days; Dec. 19, 1996, P.L.1458, No.186, eff. 60 days; Feb.
    18, 1998, P.L.102, No.19, eff. imd.; June 11, 2002, P.L.367,
    No.52, eff. imd.)
    2002 Amendment. Act 52 added par. (16). 1998 Amendment. Act 19 amended the intro. par. and pars.
    (2), (5) and (9) and added par. (15). 1996 Amendment. Act 186 amended par. (2) and added par.
    (14). 1995 Amendment. Act 20, 1st Sp.Sess., added par. (13). Cross References. Section 5704 is referred to in sections
    5702, 5706, 5720, 5721.1, 5742, 5747, 5749, 5782 of this title.

    Source

    I will state that I did not read this word for word. From my reading, it looks like Bellyup is right. However, (and I couldn't find it above) I did read on a couple other pages that it is acceptable to record when there is no expectation of privacy, such as outside of a Pens game.


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  14. #64
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    Even more significantly, almost ten years before Agnew, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court held that secretly recording a police officer in the performance of his duties did not violate the Wiretap Act. See Commonwealth v. Henlen, 522 Pa. 514, 564 A.2d 905, 906 (1989).

    In 1998, the Pennsylvania Supreme Court explained the elements of a Wiretap Act violation as follows:
    [I]n order to establish a prima facie case under the Wiretap Act for interception of an oral communication, a claimant must demonstrate: (1) that he engaged in a communication; (2) that he possessed an expectation that the communication would not be intercepted; (3) that his expectation was justifiable under the circumstances; and (4) that the defendant attempted to, or successfully intercepted the communication, or encouraged another to do so.
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  15. #65
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    Bellyup039 Ha-- I know you usually don't work anyhow... just like me.

    I think we have about covered it:

    OC is legal and it is debatable if it promotes the gun enthusiast hobby and the the 2nd admendment awarness.
    Field Interviews (FI) arent arrests
    Dependant on the FI reason and the events leading up to the FI it may be better to smooth the situation over by identifiing yourself even if you are not required to provid such information
    There are benifts to OC vs. CC

    I think we default to those who have experence in the matter regarding the elements of the crime of wiretapping. Much like photos the recording/wiretap laws reall rely heavily on the expectation of privacy. When you are walking around the consol arena you have no reasonable expectation of privacy to yoru conversations being made on a public thoughfare. Therfore, photo/recording is permitted. There is another matter if the material may be resued or used in court.. again there really is SO much more to all of that I say we let that dog lay on the floor. It is pretty pasionate about our positions.

    scott out.
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  16. #66
    Woof! You mean i dont have to look up all that jaz.

    Sleep. dog, sleep.

    Personally, I like it when others open carry. I know who to watch when the Sh... Hits the fan. Cause if they aren't smart enough to have "the element of suprise" on their side. It's on my side.

  17. #67
    Less posting, more wheeling! joshs1ofakindxj's Avatar
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    I don't think I like what you're implying.

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    Quote Originally Posted by joshs1ofakindxj View Post
    I don't think I like what you're implying.
    It sounds like he's implying that people that OC are all stupid criminals.

    Either that or that he himself is a criminal and knows who to draw down on first.

  19. #69
    Smart phone, dumb Wrecker! Wrecker's Avatar
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    He means what I feel also. When you open carry, you are the first to be a target for the bad guys. They are going to go after the person they know has the gun first. While the guy who is concealed, has the element of time. I wont be forced to act till I feel the time is right for me.
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    ^ Agreed. There is a time and a place. 99% of the time I have a firearm and guess what nobody knows but me, and I like it that way.

    I'm not getting into Mere encounter, Investigative detention etc. I just had a whole semester of investigation.
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    Agreed again. That has always been the basis of my point whenever I jump into these discussions. *I* wouldn't OC because *I* don't like the attention. There ARE times when the attention can benefit a situation and OC'ing will bring a certain level of authority to an otherwise civil situation. In other words, OC'ing in an environment where shit has not hit the fan just yet, can prevent shit from flying in the first place.... great.

    I grew up around firearms but I actually learned to respect a fire arm in the military. When I say respect, I mean fear, because respect and fear are one and the same in my book. I have alll kinds of experience firing different types of fire arms. I qualified expert on the SAW Loved that machine. I only mention that to give a little background.

    Because of that respect, I will admit that when I see a civilian OC'ing or one of my friends, my first instinct is to punch them in the face. No I don't say anything and no I don't cause a scene or anything, its just something personal I feel. I know that sounds harsh but its because I feel threatened. Its a normal reaction I think but then some will say that somehow makes me a liberal...lol. My point is, I'd imagine the bad guys probably feel the same way. I live in Braddock, work and down pittsburgh, and lived in the Northside before this...I've never felt the need to OC and I don't usually carry. That's my choice though, not anybody elses. I'd imagine if I OC'd on a daily basis I'd have a lot more stories to tell.

    In my opinion, CC'ing gets the job done. OC'ing creates headaches, unless you're in a combat situation of course.

  22. #72
    Smart phone, dumb Wrecker! Wrecker's Avatar
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    ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
    LIBERAL! LIBERAL! LIBERAL!

    GET HIM..........








    I kid.
    Gotta be a special place in heaven for those girls who believe in making a lot of guys happy instead of making one miserable

    Free Frank!

  23. #73
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    ^You bleeding heart liberal pinky commie !!!!!!!

    Always knew you liked dudes.
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  24. #74
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    Jerks...

    I try to be serious for once!

    I forgot the


    Seriously though, it all goes back to the boobs. Think about it.
    Last edited by Deadman 94 xj; 04-26-2012 at 08:36 AM.

  25. #75
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    These kind ?


    Or these kind ?

    1998 GMC K2500 454 5 Speed
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