Curious About Doorless Legality?

[DixieJeeper]

Get this, they have Radar Detector Detectors. A friend of mine got popped by it and to keep from getting a fine, he had to destroy it. He asked the LEO how he could do that and the LEO told him put it under his tire and run it over,,,LOL. He tried to fight for the state invoking the cause of Destruction to Private property and they LOL. I always unplug mine when going through the little bit of VA heading south. Its also posted everywhere! 0 tolerance~

Its true.. techincally called RDD's.

[DixieJeeper]

I disagree, There are many situatioins when an out of state vehicle does not have to comply with the laws that they are traveling in. The first one that comes to mind is.... The front licence plate. MANY states require a front licence plate to be affixed to the vehicle. Pa is not one of those states. so if what you say is true then any Pa registered vehicle can be pulled over and ticketed for not having a front licence plate that they were never issued. I have always been told that your vehicle needs to comply with the laws that, that vehicle is registered in. same goes for tire coverage/flare laws, bumper height, max tire size/ min tread depth. I cant site it but I beleive that there is a federal statute or something reguarding the matter. Im just a dumb mechanic. Im sure someone who is smarter that I can site this statute

I agree with that- just not the dumb mechanic part!

I agree if your vehicle is registered in VA or OH it needs 2 plates. Likewise, no one is going to cite a PA driver for no front plate you aren't required to have it in the registered state. However, trying to apply that logic to the entire code isn't necessarily always true. The point I was trying to make and I think goes to the OP- is the larger question is to moving violations.

What I was taught in the academy by both academy instructors, Commonwealths attorneys, and defense attorneys that volunteered to taught opposing views is;

A vehicle is subject to the laws it is registered in as the baseline test and likewise may be subject to the laws of the state is curerntly being operated in dependent on the probable cause to stop. So if you rig doesn't have to have operable parking lamps lets say in Ohio (just as an example) but you are driving in PA- somone can pull you over and still cite you since its a law in PA and goes directly to public saftey.

To agree and give a example to Mykal and your perspective- I95 is a major drug corrdor- often using PC of overlyweighed vehicles (sedans riding unormally low) to perfrom a stop. If the windows are tinted you wouldn't write paper on a tint violation since they are allowed to have it in their state.

However, you could write a exhaust violation on the same car if the muffler was held on with mechanics wire and chewing gun since that particular code requires all vehicles operated upon the highways of VA.

[tjblair]

A vehicle is subject to the laws it is registered in as the baseline test and likewise may be subject to the laws of the state is curerntly being operated in dependent on the probable cause to stop. So if you rig doesn't have to have operable parking lamps lets say in Ohio (just as an example) but you are driving in PA- somone can pull you over and still cite you since its a law in PA and goes directly to public saftey.

This is the problem I have. You can be totally legal as far as YOU THE DRIVER knows and just because the LEO has PROBABLE CAUSE as they love to say they had you are screwed.

and once YOU the driver are pulled over and Cited It is then an up hill battle for you. weather you are innocent until proven guilty or not. You are still fighting an up hill battle no matter WHAT you do.. I don't hate cops or anything ( Ok sometimes I do) But the Whole probable cause thing is bullshit in my eyes. either you have proof or you don't. I wish I could get by in my job with "I think that this part is bad, Im not sure, But im pretty sure it is" BULLSHIT. Sometime I think that LEO's dont think what is this gonig to do this person if my probable cause is BS or my gut is wrong. it *ucks up peoples lifes when they are wrong. innocent or guilty.

[DixieJeeper]

I agree just like theres good techs.. and bad techs.. theres good LEO's and bad ones too as much as I hate to say it. Sometimes the "bad leo"- really just boils down to he is a dick and likes to write paper. Although I have first hand seen LEO's twist and lie too.. so I am not nieve enough to say it doesn't happen... becasue it does.

Something my time taught me is alot of people think the law is black and white.. but there is ALOT of gray in it. Mainly since there can be so many circumstances that dictate arguing diffrerent points. Anyhow no matter where I lived everyone has debated the door thing.

As far as mechanicing goes....

what you don't try the TAP method of repairs? Try Another Part?


While everyone is energized on this thread.... Can you please tell me;
1) Where is creek falls exactly I need GPS coordinates
2) Is it legal to wheel there?
3) Where can I get 5" mandrel bent exhaust?
4) Can I use JB weld on my CV joint on my 3500 Ram?

LOL Ok lets go get a beer.

[tjblair]

Already had a few if you cant figue it out by my poor english. haha. But it boils down to, If a bad tech screws up your vehicle you usually have a recourse.(and you are usually not in court) If you get slapped with a bum wrap because a LEO claims he had PROBABLE CAUSE then it effects your life ALOT more then if a Tech screws up your brake job. Yes there are bad techs just like there are bad LEO's. But the bad LEO's screw up alot more peoples lifes than a bad tech does.



I'll stick with my original advise to the OP get a wrangler and feel free to take the doors off. taking the doors off an xj is just asking for trouble, weather you think that is legal or not.

[DMG]

While everyone is energized on this thread.... Can you please tell me;
1) Where is creek falls exactly I need GPS coordinates
2) Is it legal to wheel there?
3) Where can I get 5" mandrel bent exhaust?
4) Can I use JB weld on my CV joint on my 3500 Ram?

Yes

(BTW, if it is legal in the state a vehicle is registered in it is legal in any state the vehicle passes through. And Ohio does not have a state inspection but vehicle code requires lighting to function.)

[tjblair]

1) Where is creek falls exactly I need GPS coordinates
2) Is it legal to wheel there?
3) Where can I get 5" mandrel bent exhaust?
4) Can I use JB weld on my CV joint on my 3500 Ram?

1. noone knows, it's an riddle wrapped in an enigma
2. see #1
3.doesnt exist
4.sure,
let me know how that works out for you

[HeepH8erTy]

ok thanks for the advice. I'm gonna take my doors off today for when i go to this cornhole tourny fundraiser down the road from my house. I'll let you guys know how it goes. If i take em off, I wont go far. Hopefully i wont get pulled over and cornholed before i get to play cornhole haha

[HeepH8erTy]

Well I read up on and figured out how I would modify the hinges to make the doors go on and off and was all ready to do that. Then i saw/ realized how many wires go into the door and said fawk it. Took the top off the sami and cruised around in that for the day... i guess i got my fix of being "free" while driving haha I'll just mess with all that stuff if i ever get around to makin halfies

[muddeprived]

You need a wrangler. I've had my XJ for years now and all I think about is doorless/topless every time i get in it because I owned a TJ before the XJ. Then I see folks on the board cutting stuff and taking their doors off the XJ's but it never looks right, nor feels like it "belongs" that way. For the past few years, I've bitten my thumb every time a wrangler passes me because I missed the experience....so I fixed it and got another TJ. Went topless and doorless last week for the first time in 7 years and WOW. Sadly I haven't driven the cherokee much at all since I bought the TJ. It's just too much fun.

I did manage to put a nasty scratch in the door while storing them. Oh well...the paint on that jeep was too clean and it needed some battle scars.

[DixieJeeper]

IMO the only time a XJ should be doorless is if you want a dedicated XJ trail rig- theres just a bunch of junk you have to do to take the door off and its not designed to be taken on an off a 100 times. If you want the door to work right and all the switch gear its best to leave it in place so enjoy the sammi... looks like a nice rig.

[justin'sbig7]

The doors on an xj are also an integral part of the structural makeup of the unibody. running with doors off severely weakens them, let alone if you were to be in a wreck with the doors off.

[tjblair]

Que mykals rant. Lol

[Mykal]

Well I read up on and figured out how I would modify the hinges to make the doors go on and off and was all ready to do that. Then i saw/ realized how many wires go into the door and said fawk it. Took the top off the sami and cruised around in that for the day... i guess i got my fix of being "free" while driving haha I'll just mess with all that stuff if i ever get around to makin halfies

Power doors? Theres a connector behind the door speakers that you can quickly disconnect and feed back through the door and the body. Stuff it behind the plastic kick panels.

You need a wrangler. I've had my XJ for years now and all I think about is doorless/topless every time i get in it because I owned a TJ before the XJ. Then I see folks on the board cutting stuff and taking their doors off the XJ's but it never looks right, nor feels like it "belongs" that way. For the past few years, I've bitten my thumb every time a wrangler passes me because I missed the experience....so I fixed it and got another TJ. Went topless and doorless last week for the first time in 7 years and WOW. Sadly I haven't driven the cherokee much at all since I bought the TJ. It's just too much fun.

I did manage to put a nasty scratch in the door while storing them. Oh well...the paint on that jeep was too clean and it needed some battle scars.

I can also argue the opposite way. Ive had both as well and hated the TJ. I couldnt be happier I got rid of that damn thing.

IMO the only time a XJ should be doorless is if you want a dedicated XJ trail rig- theres just a bunch of junk you have to do to take the door off and its not designed to be taken on an off a 100 times. If you want the door to work right and all the switch gear its best to leave it in place so enjoy the sammi... looks like a nice rig.

False.

The doors on an xj are also an integral part of the structural makeup of the unibody. running with doors off severely weakens them, let alone if you were to be in a wreck with the doors off.

You normally come off as very intelligent.

Que mykals rant. Lol

Im pretty sure Ive never ranted. Just stated my experiences with the situation.
You can now add another XJ to that list as well. Its sitting mostly stock and the doors open and shot with no issue at all.

keep in mind its easier to keep your XJ and pull the doors instead of buying a wrangler to extend the wheel base and swap in a good frame.
Think of all the money you will save as well by not buying one.

Dont do it. Itll fold in half.

[DixieJeeper]

My idea easily pulling a door off to go doorless involves removing two externally mounted hinge nuts and pulling up on the door.

Removing the door panel (last gen XJ) , door check, upper and lower hinges, and the wiring harness I think qualifies as a bunch of stuff. Regardless, it isn't anything HARD to remove per se. But it certainly isn't a 1 min operation if you are going from doorless to door-ed.

The door connectors weren't designed to be taken on and off through out their life cycle. Not saying they can't survive such abuse but if they were they would be designed to better with stand it they are a bit questionable. My idea would be like JK door harnesses or like German/Sweedish cars have a harness that is circular and locks in with a cam and a torx set screw, the door hinges are pinned like a wrangler. That would be a better design.

But like I said thats all IMO... you are free to think and do as you wish with your doors and connectors- after all its your ride not mine.

[Mykal]

My idea easily pulling a door off to go doorless involves removing two externally mounted hinge nuts and pulling up on the door.

Removing the door panel (last gen XJ) , door check, upper and lower hinges, and the wiring harness I think qualifies as a bunch of stuff. Regardless, it isn't anything HARD to remove per se. But it certainly isn't a 1 min operation if you are going from doorless to door-ed.

The door connectors weren't designed to be taken on and off through out their life cycle. Not saying they can't survive such abuse but if they were they would be designed to better with stand it they are a bit questionable. My idea would be like JK door harnesses or like German/Sweedish cars have a harness that is circular and locks in with a cam and a torx set screw, the door hinges are pinned like a wrangler. That would be a better design.

But like I said thats all IMO... you are free to think and do as you wish with your doors and connectors- after all its your ride not mine.

After you mod everything if you can not take your doors off in a minute then you are doing it wrong.

If I use my door checks I pull the bolt out that hold them in the body side. No wrenches needed as it just pulls up.
I did not have to remove my hinges on either Cherokee to cut the brackets. Even if you do remove them its a one time thing once its modified.
I spent around 30 minutes on each side to mod the hinges without taking them off. If you take them off you can do both within the same time frame.
Wiring harness is easy if you put some time in to it to move the connection outside of the door. There are a couple good ways to get around it.
Its super easy if you do not have power doors.
Questionable connectors or not they hold up just fine.

You are right, its your opinion.

It really doesnt matter since your state deems it illegal. Im lucky that I dont have that issue. I just hope that it doesnt fold in half while Im driving it down the road.

[jlovbasz3]

I must of missed something?? You want to drive around door less and you have a Samurai? It's a whole lot easier to modify the hinges on the Samurai to take the doors off.

[Mykal]

I must of missed something?? You want to drive around door less and you have a Samurai? It's a whole lot easier to modify the hinges on the Samurai to take the doors off.

LOL

I was thinking more along the lines of everyone telling him he needs a wrangler yet he basically already has one.

[justin'sbig7]

You normally come off as very intelligent.

cut a few too many up and saw how they were built. Also wheeled a few that the doors wouldnt close on after a while. Ill throw my popcans in a shopping cart to wheel, at least then they wont crinkle

[justin'sbig7]

Oh yeah, open the doors, buckle the roof, fold it into an xj taco. You can take 3 to the scrapyard on a 16' trailer that way

[Ragnorox]

Don't get me started on radar/lidar detectors.........these fawking states who think they are able to outlaw them are full of Sh*t! Fed. dictates that it is lawful to Receive any transmitted signal (not verbatim). This is the only Amendment that i am aware of, albeit that I have not checked in the last few years.

"The rule (47 C.F.R. Section 1.4000) has been in effect since October 1996, and it prohibits restrictions that impair the installation, maintenance or use of antennas used to receive video programming. The rule applies to video antennas including direct-to-home satellite dishes that are less than one meter (39.37") in diameter (or of any size in Alaska), TV antennas, and wireless cable antennas. The rule prohibits most restrictions that: (1) unreasonably delay or prevent installation, maintenance or use; (2) unreasonably increase the cost of installation, maintenance or use; or (3) preclude reception of an acceptable quality signal."

[Super Scout]

As much as I think its BS to ban radar detectors, I will never be in support of any federal law overriding state law. States should be able to decide.

[DMG]

The reason they get away with that sort of BS is that are lawmakers all ride in limos or corporate jets and on the rare occasion they do drive, they can make tickets go away pretty easily. What do they care?

[muddeprived]

Well I drove from Chippewa to Wexford with my doors off, top down, and my foot hanging out the door. Passed 3 cops and none bothered me. I'm either lucky or too damn cool!

[DixieJeeper]

There is only 1 state where RD/LD is illegal- Virginia, The District of Columbia also outlawed them.

The excerpt of the code you cited only seems to reference radio and satelite signals for commerical use and standard interference issues. It doesn't seem to reference sepcifically radar or light signals (LIDAR).

I never understood why DC even outlawed Radar- as there literally very few roadways within the district where you really could exceed anything more that 35 mph... traffic is a bear and usually a total snarl.

VA still actively supports having a ban on RD/LD usage- there was a bill that died on the State Senate floor last Feb and one on the house floor 2 years ago. VSP's stance is two fold and evidently the house of delegates and senate agree;

1) Speed
2) interfernce of public saftey officers abilty to enforce the law, speeding is usally a PC for a stop on major drug interdiction details on interstates 81, 95 66, 64.

http://hamptonroads.com/2010/02/bid-...an-fails-house

They are some sucessful arguments about the use of RD/LD now adays with accident/incident warning and construction/congestion warnings built into the higher end units.

Back in the day VA actually had the law written it was Illegal to posses a dector and they used to confiscate them. The signs used to say "Radar Detectors Illegal- Subject to Confiscation".. FCC stepped in and sued VA on the grounds of illegal conifscation of civilan radio equipment without warrant. That was over 10 years ago.