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Thread: Changes are a-comin'

  1. #26
    Premium Supporting Member OverkillZJ's Avatar
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    You can only do it in PA if you're already a franchisee. By their current franchisees no one like me can go in and purchase a new franchise to start fresh. I could approach a current franchisee, but in business I don't play well with others!

  2. #27
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    This place is like a ball, I insult all my friends its how I roll. And I have even better insults when my friends are doing me a favor. Its the way I do things. Some people just can't handle it personally I like coming here, it and pirate are like the last corners of the internet where you can say what you really want to see. Weaver FREE DONUT FRIDAYS. I am not letting this go, ill be at your place friday afternoon. Ill buy this week.
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  3. #28
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    FWIW, shooting, mountain biking, hiking, fishing, etc. are not done on the road, and many of these can be enjoyed by vehicular offroading as well to get to your spots. I am obviously not as active in the off road vehicular aspect as I used to be but I still come around because I have met many good friends here, and if I can help someone with something well, bonus.

    also, I have never used tapatalk. I like browsing full site on my phone and find mobile sites to be friggin annoying and lacking of the regular features.

    ultimately its your site, sorry it seems to have sucked (I haven't thought so) but there seems to be a steady decrease in the interest in wheeling lately as our crowd buys houses, gets married and have kids... it seems like most of the off road clubs and forums have been declining in activity lately. It may just be the off topic and lax regulations on getting off topic keeping this site more active.
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  4. #29
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    [QUOTE=justin'sbig7;295988]I have never used tapatalk. I like browsing full site on my phone and find mobile sites to be friggin annoying and lacking of the regular features. [\quote]
    Same here. I like to queue up the threads I want to read in separate tabs and there is nothing equivalent in tapatalk. Then again as long as I don't get a popup that this forum supports tapatalk every time I come here, tapatalk has no bearing on my browsing experience.

    Quote Originally Posted by justin'sbig7 View Post
    its your site, sorry it seems to have sucked (I haven't thought so) but there seems to be a steady decrease in the interest in wheeling lately as our crowd buys houses, gets married and have kids... it seems like most of the off road clubs and forums have been declining in activity lately. It may just be the off topic and lax regulations on getting off topic keeping this site more active.
    Even pirate hasn't been the same in terms of Offroad discussion. Everyone seems to be using general social media sites like Facebook and Instagram these days which is decentralizing the tech and other related discussion.
    [URL="http://www.pgh-offroad.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7670"][/URL]

  5. #30
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    That's the nail in the head....Facebook and facebook alone is the reason for the decline on the forums. That's obviously just my take on it but that's what I believe to be the reason. Its a wide spread thing, not just Pirate or here or where ever. So, finding a way to incorporate this with Facebook is a good idea I guess. I just recently "Liked" PghOffroad on FB again and it seems to work pretty good. I never would have saw Mykal's insult to my build thread so fast otherwise.... kidding.

    That said, facebook has a lot of women folk and I can only take so much. Coming over here is a nice break from all that. We can BS about....things. I do realize there are a few women here also...but they're cool.

    As far as the other sections....I don't venture too far. The build threads I like to read and I stick mostly to the offroad stuff because that's why I'm here. I don't give a shit about guns but its nice to keep that stuff in one place. If I have a question about camping spots, there's a place to go without cluttering up other stuff, etc, etc. Structurally, I don't see room for improvement. I don't think anyone cares.

    I've just kinda started coming around here again for no other reason than I missed it. This site and the people I've met have been a huge part of my life and one that I hope stays around. I've just been busy with "the real world" and it's about to get busier...but that makes me realize that I need this place even more.

    Improvments? Here's a real world take on it and what I've gathered from talking to people over the years....people don't like the cliques. I guess there's a group of "regulars" that seems to run things and new folk don't feel welcome. Or, there are certain personalities that grow tiresome. I know...highschool shit but take it for what its worth. I don't have any advise on that one. Maybe keep the off topic shit where it belongs....and that's constructive criticism not a personal one. Think about the effect it might have...

    My recommendations? Bring back the logo...lol
    Last edited by Deadman 94 xj; 02-15-2014 at 10:16 PM.
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  6. #31
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    Oh, another thing. Keep in mind, I don't know if you're quest is to attract more people, but this is related to that... You know how when you browse the forum without logging in, the only section you don't have access to is OT? Well, I think making other, more "attractive or offroad relevant" sections private will encourage more people to create accounts and log in. As it is I get everything I want out of this forum without ever logging in. Just something else to think about.
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  7. #32
    www.RalphsOffRoad.com RalphDogg's Avatar
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    I appreciate Matt making the big step up in the early 2k and inventing forum. Before pgh off-road it was dial up internet, with mark posting when the club would meet at McDonalds.

  8. #33
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadman 94 xj View Post
    Oh, another thing. Keep in mind, I don't know if you're quest is to attract more people, but this is related to that... You know how when you browse the forum without logging in, the only section you don't have access to is OT? Well, I think making other, more "attractive or offroad relevant" sections private will encourage more people to create accounts and log in. As it is I get everything I want out of this forum without ever logging in. Just something else to think about.

    Thats tricky. A lot of people will shun a forum that hides all of its content. Some forums show text and hide the images to unregistered members. That sucks to.
    People that are searching for something and come across a link will not take the 2 minutes to register when they can just click the next link. They will join if they read something interesting and feel the need to comment or stick around.

    They key to bringing in new people is easy. Spreading the word, staying an active community (lots of rides and meet & greets on a REGULAR basis), lots of relevant posts from active members. Good luck.

  9. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mykal View Post
    Thats tricky. A lot of people will shun a forum that hides all of its content. Some forums show text and hide the images to unregistered members. That sucks to.
    People that are searching for something and come across a link will not take the 2 minutes to register when they can just click the next link. They will join if they read something interesting and feel the need to comment or stick around.

    They key to bringing in new people is easy. Spreading the word, staying an active community (lots of rides and meet & greets on a REGULAR basis), lots of relevant posts from active members. Good luck.
    True enough. You just see 25 guests all the time and one member signed in. But I get what you're saying too. I know Jeepforum...which I've always hated, restricts alot like you're saying but they're usually wanting $$ for memberships. Either way, you're right, it's tricky.

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  10. #35
    Forum Administrator beat1078's Avatar
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    Matt,

    I will be back soon and the Meet and Greets will pick up again.
    You and MyKal have valid points about "tone" of replies. Sugar coat, no, but do we have to throw gas on a new guy because his/her perception of offroad is what the rest of the world throws down their throat? If all they know is the Fast and the Furious with lockers then they were never taught the right way. Isn't that what we are here for? To teach the responsible way to do things? My first impression of this place after trolling for a couple weeks was MFSteve's reply to me when I replied to a M&G. If we want people to come here and enjoy it and be a part of the group we need to be a little less rough. If you feel the need to go off on little Johnny because he wants to put stacks on his S-10 then do it in a PM or something and maybe try and drive home the facts. Sure we would all like to say "you dumb ass" but what is little Johnny really learning other than he is a dumb ass? They joined PGHOR, not Pirate.

    So anyway...May will be the epic return for the M&G and hopefully at the same grove we had been at for a couple years in South Park.
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverkillZJ View Post
    If I hadn't met you, I'd assume you were a 90 nerd wearing huge glasses after saying that, LMAO!

  11. #36
    Premium Supporting Member OverkillZJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadman 94 xj View Post
    True enough. You just see 25 guests all the time and one member signed in. But I get what you're saying too. I know Jeepforum...which I've always hated, restricts alot like you're saying but they're usually wanting $$ for memberships. Either way, you're right, it's tricky.

    Rig of the month and pic of the month was fun.
    The "guest" are usually bots that are attempting to register and spam. There's usually a minimum of a dozen on the registration page. It's usually peope's computers that have viruses and are turned into a bot-army, and for whatever reason, PGH-OR is on its list of targets. As no one is there to actually enter the rep-catchya thingy majigger, they never get past the registration page. There's very few real people on as "guest" looking at content. The other aspect of this is: with it being locked down, Google, Bing, etc. can't index the site - and that means someone looking for, lets say, "Awesome people around Pittsburgh to wheel with" or "Why is overkillzj such a tool some times" would never really find the site. That's why I hid OT though -- I don't want the political rants and general BS to bring in others just for that section and make it a free for all. I guess I could've just said that's a fine line to walk. Or x2'd Mykal. But I didn't. Because I like to type. Now back to cleaning the garage! Finally unboxing the tools I move over here 14 months ago...

  12. #37
    Premium Supporting Member OverkillZJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by beat1078 View Post
    Matt,

    I will be back soon and the Meet and Greets will pick up again.
    You and MyKal have valid points about "tone" of replies. Sugar coat, no, but do we have to throw gas on a new guy because his/her perception of offroad is what the rest of the world throws down their throat? If all they know is the Fast and the Furious with lockers then they were never taught the right way. Isn't that what we are here for? To teach the responsible way to do things? My first impression of this place after trolling for a couple weeks was MFSteve's reply to me when I replied to a M&G. If we want people to come here and enjoy it and be a part of the group we need to be a little less rough. If you feel the need to go off on little Johnny because he wants to put stacks on his S-10 then do it in a PM or something and maybe try and drive home the facts. Sure we would all like to say "you dumb ass" but what is little Johnny really learning other than he is a dumb ass? They joined PGHOR, not Pirate.

    So anyway...May will be the epic return for the M&G and hopefully at the same grove we had been at for a couple years in South Park.
    Totally agreed! A lot of us forget that you can't hear sarcasm over the Internet. The bottom line is we scared a lot of good wheelers away - just to make a joke out of it. And the group has stopped growing because of it, as others have moved on in life. I'm not saying we can't bullshit -- but we don't need to be dicks. And we *SHOULD* be helping the newbies that are generally clueless. I admit to being first in line to jump on them sometimes -- but frankly I remember when I was like in 2000 when I got my first ZJ -- I was one of the newbie idiots -- and if I'd gotten the response we've given in the last few years, I never would've gotten into this great hobby, met so many great people, and had so many awesome adventures that honest to God shaped my life more than I ever could have imagined.

    The bottom line is this: off-roading is a dying sport around here. I know there's several clubs that are very active - but for those that just bought some Rubicon or used Jeep -- there's no longer the Jeep Jamboree's and other easy-to-access wheeling there was 15 years ago. Let alone 30 years ago. I realize I can probably never make this the group it was 15 years ago, nor do I want to, but I want to make it the best it can be now. There's a lot of good people around here that aren't working together any longer. If we do, I think you'd be amazed how much private land we could get permission to wheel on without the worries of insurance, club meetings, etc.

  13. #38
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    Quote Originally Posted by OverkillZJ View Post
    The "guest" are usually bots that are attempting to register and spam. There's usually a minimum of a dozen on the registration page. It's usually peope's computers that have viruses and are turned into a bot-army, and for whatever reason, PGH-OR is on its list of targets. As no one is there to actually enter the rep-catchya thingy majigger, they never get past the registration page. There's very few real people on as "guest" looking at content. The other aspect of this is: with it being locked down, Google, Bing, etc. can't index the site - and that means someone looking for, lets say, "Awesome people around Pittsburgh to wheel with" or "Why is overkillzj such a tool some times" would never really find the site. That's why I hid OT though -- I don't want the political rants and general BS to bring in others just for that section and make it a free for all. I guess I could've just said that's a fine line to walk. Or x2'd Mykal. But I didn't. Because I like to type. Now back to cleaning the garage! Finally unboxing the tools I move over here 14 months ago...
    Nah, its cool. It was just something else to think about. I didn't know that about the spam and stuff. Carry on.
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  14. #39
    PghOffRoad Forum Addict!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadman 94 xj View Post
    True enough. You just see 25 guests all the time and one member signed in. But I get what you're saying too. I know Jeepforum...which I've always hated, restricts alot like you're saying but they're usually wanting $$ for memberships. Either way, you're right, it's tricky.

    Rig of the month and pic of the month was fun.
    Even JF is dying off.. The owners sold it to company that owns lots of other forums. They make their money by selling to vendors. I was a vendor over there, even through it was pricey, but it paid for itself. When the new change happened, they jacked the price up (IIRC, its about $800 a year up front).


    Perhaps a way to make this forum more lively would to be to see about having local clubs roll their forums into this one. It would give them all places they chn chat, but also meet local members and not worry about admin tasks.
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  15. #40
    Premium Supporting Member OverkillZJ's Avatar
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    I just deleted several posts that didn't need to be made.

    There's plenty of forums you can be a jerk on if you want to.

    Please don't make this one of them.

    I'm tryign to do a good thing here with very little time and very litte resources. I'd appreciate it if you didn't make this so difficult. Truly.

  16. #41
    Premium Supporting Member OverkillZJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Azzy View Post
    Even JF is dying off.. The owners sold it to company that owns lots of other forums. They make their money by selling to vendors. I was a vendor over there, even through it was pricey, but it paid for itself. When the new change happened, they jacked the price up (IIRC, its about $800 a year up front).


    Perhaps a way to make this forum more lively would to be to see about having local clubs roll their forums into this one. It would give them all places they chn chat, but also meet local members and not worry about admin tasks.
    That was one of my original ideas a few years ago, but it never really happened. It would be easy for me to give each club a subsection if they request it though.

  17. #42
    Premium Supporting Member OverkillZJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by RalphDogg View Post
    I appreciate Matt making the big step up in the early 2k and inventing forum. Before pgh off-road it was dial up internet, with mark posting when the club would meet at McDonalds.
    Ohhh the good old days! I'm still trying to hunt down those pictures... that was my first run with this group - Mark told me about it on JeepsUnlimted, when even that was new. Now I'm feeling old. Many web-wheeling years are turning my hair grey.

  18. #43
    Right Wing Extremist! DMG's Avatar
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    It seems like this forum goes back and forth between a ball-busting thick-skin forum and JU style ultra-polite forum where even reasonable criticism is moderated. This is not a sport for the thin-skinned.

    This is a local forum where people have inside jokes and talk shit then wheel and wrench together on the weekends. That will be pretty hard to change. And if it does change it will destroy the appeal to most of the people that are here and bring other members to the site.

    We are a wheeling site in a place where wheeling is almost completely illegal. There is literally hundreds of times more wheeling land available in most western states. We need to focus on opening up public land to off-roading in this state. Make that a forum goal.

  19. #44
    Premium Supporting Member OverkillZJ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DMG View Post
    We need to focus on opening up public land to off-roading in this state. Make that a forum goal.
    That I agree with.

    But when someone has skin thinner than you like - there's no need to tear it more. Busting your friends balls is one thing. Making sure *NO ONE* wants to hang around here is another. And if that's what keeps up, I'm just done. What just happened with someone giving INPUT, that I asked for, was crap. Just plain crap.

  20. #45
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    Over moderation is a good way to make sure no one wants to hang around as well. You will always hurt someone's feelings.
    I've ran quite a few forums in the past. A few larger then this. These problems always weed themselves out. Granted it's a fine line.
    The only thing you have going on this front is that you may not lose members due to over moderation because you have a monopoly on the areas largest forum and they have no where to turn.

  21. #46
    Premium Supporting Member OverkillZJ's Avatar
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    Honestly -- I shouldn't need to moderate like I just did. And I think you know that. There's no need to attack people. As you implied, things tend to work things out. There is no reason for this site to have the reputation is has -- but we've earned it. You want to bus your friends balls - like I said to DMG - that's one thing. But here's a guy who came in giving me his opinion after a ~1 year hiatus -- and you jump on him for it. He responds. Then you jump on him again.

    That's not cool . Not at all.

  22. #47
    Less posting, more wheeling! MemorEsto's Avatar
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    I realize EJP is a little different because we are a "Club" that collects member fee's. We've reduced member fee's to just $10 a year, and really all that does is just pay for web and portal hosting fee's. And then there's a little extra in the bank so I can pay the screen printers for T-shirts with club money, instead of having to pay out of my pocket and then try and get reimbursed by people that said they would take one, then when it comes time for payment.....they gone.

    We got rid of the whole President, VP, Secretary, Trail Coordinator thing about 3 years ago. People were getting burned out, I was getting burned out and I made the suggestion that the club become like PghOR, no officers, just a website. Members didn't seem to want to do that, yet no one wanted really wanted to help out. A lot said they'd help, but when it came to having meetings to get things done, no show.

    So we decided to just become a Triumvirate and have 3 Presidents essentially. We all have access to everything, but each has his own specialty, (ie bank account, forum updates, moderating, trail and member meeting coordination)

    So just something to keep in mind, maybe you appoint a couple of people you know have the same point of views as you when it comes to directing the site and moderating unnecessary bickering in what's suppose to be a Q&A post.
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  23. #48
    Official Meet and Greet Coordinator Alley's Avatar
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    I just miss my Chicken.... Kyle, poor poor kyle.

    Plus, YeY! for the return of our M&G coordinator ...its not soon enough sir! I will also be planning a big huge fabulous Graduation party for Austin in Late June/Early Julyish. We are planning to party/camp/swim at Shenango lake up here in Mercer. I'm hoping most of y'all might decide to come since y'all know Austin!
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  24. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadman 94 xj View Post
    That's the nail in the head....Facebook and facebook alone is the reason for the decline on the forums.
    The thing that I don't get is that Facebook, Google+, Instagram, etc absolutely suck for "interest" groups. A single "page" is typically only good for one, maybe two, discussions at a given time. Any more than that and it's borderline impossible to keep track of. Heaven forbid you want to search for a discussion that happened 4 months ago on a really active page, either.

    The advantage to Facebook, Google+, Instagram, etc. is that everything YOU do is in a central location, though. So there is no need to post a build thread in 3 different sites -- nor check three different sites for any questions.

    IMO, the next big social network site is going to be one that bridges that gap. I'm not talking about integrating VBB with Facebook. I'm talking about a social media site with forum-like capabilities built into it. So, for example, you create a single build thread, tag it with the pages/classifications you want it to appear on, and that'd be equivalent to posting that same thread on each page. Each page can be organized in a timeline or a forum format, making it easy to find not only new activity, but also past activity. The page owner can control content and users similar to how it's already done in forum software.

    Or maybe I'm just an old-disgruntled 32 year old computer programmer that prefers social media (of which I include forums) for learning about topics I'm interested in than telling everyone what type of sushi I had for dinner.
    Last edited by SirFuego; 02-17-2014 at 12:53 PM.
    [URL="http://www.pgh-offroad.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7670"][/URL]

  25. #50
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    For what it's worth, I agree with everything that has been posted... haha

    Here's my take on the shit talking, and I think Matt, you have a pretty good take on it.

    One extreme is what you see in the "Jeep Community" where you have guys that are sooo thin shinned that if you use a 4 letter word, they get all butthurt like you just killed their daughters cat in front of her. These people use what I like to call the "jeeper morality" argument, as if they're holier than thou simply because they all happen to own a chrysler product. As if they're going cure cancer or something. This mantality makes me want to puke and thankfully it doesn't exist too much around here.

    That's one side.

    The other side is knowing when to SHUT THE FACK UP. This difficult because most of us just want to have fun. But exessive shit talking gets annoying. Its fun if there's a reason for it. I don't think moderating some of that ourselves will take anything away from the forums. I remember when I had something to say to someone, just to bust balls, I'd start a separate thread in OT just to have at it. I don't think anyone cared. I think the OT is taking away from some of the more "readable" content, and causing new people not to want to participate. New guys don't want to chime in on Jimmy's distributor problem when little Alex is talking about Jim's coke whore addiciton.

    I personally have thin skin days and thick skin days. My last build thread I deleted because it turned into something I liked to read to a bunch of monkey's coming in and bullshitting about what they had for dinner and "shit talking" about Jon's penis size and Superscout not being satisfied. Deleting that thread was a thin skin day. I never claimed to be all that tolerant in the first place. I agree that it was dumb but I also went through a "Im quitting the internet" phase soo...

    So that leaves me to believe there is a time and a place. Just my opinion.
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