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Thread: Kayaking

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    PghOffRoad Forum Addict! cjw94xk's Avatar
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    Kayaking

    Just wondering if anyone on here does it. I have a buddy out in Philly that does it and I have been thinking about taking it up. Just wanna get some opinions on doing it around here before I invest the money. I know there is ohiopyle and McConnel's Mill. Anywhere else?

  2. #2
    I have grease stains on the knees of my dockers Muzikman's Avatar
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    Sounds like you want to whitewater.

    First thing, if you have never done it before (especially if you have never even sat in a Kayak), do yourself a favor and take lessons. You can take basic flatwater lessons at local community colleges (I know CCAC has some). They teach you basic technique in a pool.

    Once you have the basic feel for a Kayak, go down to Ohiopyle and take some whitewater lessons. Winderness Voyageurs is a great bunch of people with some good istructors.

    If you try to take up whitewater kayaking by yourself with no instructions, you stand a good chance of injury or death...seriously.

    The two places you mentioned are popular spots obviously. There are a TON of streams in western PA and WV that you can paddle. Everything from simple Class II-III to Class IV-V.
    Last edited by Muzikman; 01-28-2008 at 12:25 PM.
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    PghOffRoad Forum Addict! TimMichaels's Avatar
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    Do you plan on doing flatwater or whitewater? If you're not looking for whitewater I highly suggest a canoe instead. Right now kayaks are "trendy" but they're so much less effecient for calmer waters.

    I have a canoe now and use it on many bodies of water. I'll be picking up a kayak once I have the money. Until then I just do whitewater in rafts.

    Like Jason said there's an infinite number of places in Pa to head to. Just like other outdoors sports, there's the obvious, well-known places then there's those hidden gems only the enthusiasts know of. Start easy in the well known places. If whitewater is what you're looking for, at Ohiopyle, do the Middle Yough before the Lower Yough. For starting out I also recommend Cook Forest... it's pretty tame but the scenery is great and there's a few great canoe liveries in the area that you can rent from and get shuttled (maybe I'm also a biased employee!)
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  4. #4
    I have grease stains on the knees of my dockers Muzikman's Avatar
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    I like Tim, but I disagree. I would rather sit in a Kayak than a Canoe. As a matter of fact, I hate caneos. I will say, if you plan on camping when you paddle, a canoe will hold more sruff, in a kayak you have to almost pack like you are hiking.
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    PghOffRoad Forum Addict! TimMichaels's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muzikman View Post
    I like Tim, but I disagree. I would rather sit in a Kayak than a Canoe. As a matter of fact, I hate caneos. I will say, if you plan on camping when you paddle, a canoe will hold more sruff, in a kayak you have to almost pack like you are hiking.
    Is it just the fact that in a kayak you have something to lean back on? The simple solution for that in a canoe is to buy one of those stadium bleacher seats with a backrest. Works darn well.

    But like you said the gear factor is my biggest preference. I like to head out on the water for a few days and it's nice to drag along a lot of non-essential items like full coolers, stoves, etc. Or when I guide trips with a lot of new people I have to make sure I have an assload of gear for when someone else inevitably does something dumb. Kayaking is so limited.

    In the same sense, kayaking is limited to one person per craft. A canoe can easily have 2-3 people. Personally I actually prefer riding solo, but I still have the option of taking on passengers.

    The one problem with a canoe is that if you do go solo it can be very difficult to control it with all the weight in the back. That can usually be remedied with a bunch of milk jugs full of water or rocks in the front for ballast. Luckily I'm fairly light.
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  6. #6
    I have grease stains on the knees of my dockers Muzikman's Avatar
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    I dunno what it is, I grew to hate Canoes when i was a Boy Scout. Maybe it was the fact that I was always stuck with the idiot that didn't understand how a paddle works. I also like the feel of sitting in the water. I don't like sit-on-top kayaks for this reason.

    Honestly, a kayak just feels more natural to me.
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  7. #7
    "Has anyone ever mistaken the chicken outside for a crab?" JeepGeneral's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muzikman View Post
    I dunno what it is, I grew to hate Canoes when i was a Boy Scout. Maybe it was the fact that I was always stuck with the idiot that didn't understand how a paddle works. I also like the feel of sitting in the water. I don't like sit-on-top kayaks for this reason.

    Honestly, a kayak just feels more natural to me.
    I agree with Jason for the exact reason, sitting down close to the water is much more comfortable to me. I tend to hunch over when I paddle a canoe and my back gets sore quickly. They do move much faster through the water though (atleast on a lake).

    For lessons, check out http://www.adventuresportscenter.com/, it's a little farther away but would make a nice weekend trip. They adjust the water halfway through the day, easier in the morning and more difficult in the afternoon. From what everyone tells me the guides are awesome, too.

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    Less posting, more wheeling! JeepSteeler's Avatar
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    I agree with both Tim and Jason - there are positives for either a kayak or canoe depending on what you want to do. If you are going to do this mostly solo, I'd go kayak. If your wife/gf is interested, probably canoe is the way to go. Definietly take Jason's advice on some guided trips on Ohiopyle - it's well worth it and good experience. I've canoe'd the Allegheny from Cooks down to Emlenton and it is a really good time. Canoe would also be your best bet if you want to go fishing as well.

    I know there is also an outfitter downtown for kayaking on the rivers, I think it's near PPG place. Can't remember the name...

    There is also the Cheat river in WV - mostly a springtime run when the water is high. But having a kayak on vacation is nice - usually you can find a river or saltwater.

    Sportsman's Warehouse actually has a nice selection of kayaks....
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    I have grease stains on the knees of my dockers Muzikman's Avatar
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    If you want to just try out Flatwater Kayaking there are a number of places.

    Excusions in monroeville offers flatwater classes. They usually use the Loyalhanna Dam.

    Paddle Pittsburgh offers kayak rentals in two locations. Under the 6th Street bridge on the Northside (by PNC park) and at the North Park boat house. If you are very new and want to get a feel for Kayaking, but don't want to take lessons. I suggest the North Park Lake. It's shallow, it's small, and there is no current to deal with.

    Three Rivers Rowing Association also offters guided tours as well as Kayak rentals from the Millvale boat house.
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  10. #10
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    If you want to try flatwater i have a few boats and you're always welcome to come with me.

    I paddle a 14.5' Dagger savanah. I bought it because the length, and carrying capacity (450 lbs) AND the rudder.

    If you don't know, some flatwater kayaks come equipped, or can be equipped with a steerable rudder. You steer with your feet. What's nice about that is when you get out in the middle of open water, that crosswind tends to blow you off course, and you expend 1/2 your energy trying to stay on course.

    I can kick a little ruder into the wind and it keeps me straight. Also, i can paddle on just one side if i want and steer with the rudder. It's defenitely the way to go, and if you're going to buy a flatwater boat, i HIGHLY recomend it. Even a lowerable skeg can help.

    I just sold a 14' victory Maverick for 300 bucks. It was too heavy for the GF. She ended up picking up a 10' boat from Dicks that's a clone of an old town. It's really nice that she can carry her own boat now, and she's able to control it a little easier.

    We've run the conemaugh (sp?) before. There's nothing bigger than a class II on there really. There's a few places you can take "fun" lines. I'm a fan of that because you dont' have to work really hard to cover ground.

    If you're looking at a flatwater boat, be sure to think about what your'e doing with it. I bought a boat that can handle 450 lbs because i used mine to camp when i lived in SC. 2 big storage areas (watertight) and plenty of deck rigging could haul me, my food/gear out to these islands for a weekend away.

    Can't beat it! I love it!
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muzikman View Post
    If you want to just try out Flatwater Kayaking there are a number of places.

    Excusions in monroeville offers flatwater classes. They usually use the Loyalhanna Dam.

    Paddle Pittsburgh offers kayak rentals in two locations. Under the 6th Street bridge on the Northside (by PNC park) and at the North Park boat house. If you are very new and want to get a feel for Kayaking, but don't want to take lessons. I suggest the North Park Lake. It's shallow, it's small, and there is no current to deal with.

    Three Rivers Rowing Association also offters guided tours as well as Kayak rentals from the Millvale boat house.
    Kayak pittsburgh's rentals are very reasonable! i agree!

    also www.meetup.com there's a pittsburgh kayaking chapter. it's free and kim and i are members. It will be more active int he spring, but that's where i met a lot of my kayaking buddies.
    taking unsafe rigs to a whole other level

  12. #12
    I have grease stains on the knees of my dockers Muzikman's Avatar
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    That's it...Kayak Pittsburgh...I knew it was something like that.

    I have never used them downtown, but I took Danielle and Austin Kayaking a couple years ago for their first time on the North Park lake and they loved it.
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    My first time was in a "ducky" at Ohiopyle. Everyone thought I was nuts. Its was a blast. I don't like group rafts, they're to hard to coordinate and to many people don't know how to manuver...usually ends up in a mess.
    When you go white water and roll, just make sure you don't panic. Thats how people end up in trouble. They panic and suck in water. You will eventually get shot back up.
    Also, butt down and feet up so you can see your toes.
    Never try to stand up while in the water, your feet can get stuck in the rocks below. Butt down so it takes the hits from any rocks that might come by.
    I would also recomend a decent wet suit..or if the temp isn;t that cold wear an old pair of blue jeans.
    And for Gods sake..WEAR YOUR HELMET.
    Also, if you're not a good swimer, stay home!!

    Do not take a canoe in white water.

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    all the helmets they use at ohiopyle are a joke. They're single impact helmets . . . that have all the webbing broken inside them . . . they've been impacted lol
    taking unsafe rigs to a whole other level

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    haha, yeah they make you feel great when you get it and they're all marked up. Might save your life though.

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    I'd like to get a kayak my cousin got a free one from his girlfriends parents the lucky bastard. They'd be cool to fish in too just paddle out slow to a nice cove that you can't cast to from shore and even paddle around these dam lakes around Washington here that used to be used for city water.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadman 94 xj View Post
    haha, yeah they make you feel great when you get it and they're all marked up. Might save your life though.
    i guess it's better than nothing, but the idea is the suspension in the helmet helps take the impact. With that suspension broken (and they all were) the helmet is kinda useless.
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  18. #18
    I have grease stains on the knees of my dockers Muzikman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadman 94 xj View Post
    My first time was in a "ducky" at Ohiopyle. Everyone thought I was nuts. Its was a blast. I don't like group rafts, they're to hard to coordinate and to many people don't know how to manuver...usually ends up in a mess.
    When you go white water and roll, just make sure you don't panic. Thats how people end up in trouble. They panic and suck in water. You will eventually get shot back up.
    Also, butt down and feet up so you can see your toes.
    Never try to stand up while in the water, your feet can get stuck in the rocks below. Butt down so it takes the hits from any rocks that might come by.
    I would also recomend a decent wet suit..or if the temp isn;t that cold wear an old pair of blue jeans.
    And for Gods sake..WEAR YOUR HELMET.
    Also, if you're not a good swimer, stay home!!

    Do not take a canoe in white water.
    First off, you can take a Canoe in white water. People do it all the time. That is why they make float bags.

    Blue jeans are a very ugly idea when kayaking (or honestly any outdoor activity). They get heavy when wet and they do not dry out. I have never paddled in the winter (I have done spring run off) and I have never owned a wet suit. I wear nylon shorts and a Polypropylene t-shirt, I also wear water shoes (I hate sandles and i refuse to paddle barefoot). In whitewater the proper PFD and helmet are a must and you hardly ever see people without them.

    And just like wheeling (and probably more important when Kayaking), don't kayak a lone. Flat water it's not as bad, but never ever paddle whitewater alone.
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    Less posting, more wheeling! JeepSteeler's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 2002wranglerX View Post
    i guess it's better than nothing, but the idea is the suspension in the helmet helps take the impact. With that suspension broken (and they all were) the helmet is kinda useless.

    Plus the stench of the moldy helmet and life jacket are enough to make you want to puke on yourself just because it would smell better.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muzikman View Post
    First off, you can take a Canoe in white water. People do it all the time. That is why they make float bags.

    Blue jeans are a very ugly idea when kayaking (or honestly any outdoor activity). They get heavy when wet and they do not dry out. I have never paddled in the winter (I have done spring run off) and I have never owned a wet suit. I wear nylon shorts and a Polypropylene t-shirt, I also wear water shoes (I hate sandles and i refuse to paddle barefoot). In whitewater the proper PFD and helmet are a must and you hardly ever see people without them.

    And just like wheeling (and probably more important when Kayaking), don't kayak a lone. Flat water it's not as bad, but never ever paddle whitewater alone.
    I used to stray out alone and go camp on a bunch of islands when i lived in SC. it was wild though. Sometimes you'd see alligators surface 5-6 feet from you! Camping on the islands was wild too, you'd wake up in the middle of the night to a wierd growling sound. You'd roll over and look out your tent and you'd see gators all around you! it was crazy!

    i also don't like sandals when i paddle but for other reasons. I don't like the strap behind my ankle while sitting in my kayak. in the canoe it's ok. I wear North Face "water shoes". They look like tennis shoes but have holes in the bottom for drainage and lots of mesh.

    I also NEVER wear cotton when kayaking/biking/camping. There's a reason they call it death cloth!

    PFD wise, there's one basic design for them, but be sure to try a few on. Kim and i have high waisted PFD's so we don't lean against them while in the boat. Also, whitewater PFD's are sometimes have harnesses built in for saves and what not.


    Here's a question for you canoers. Do you still have to use aluminum canoes for white water? or are they using the polymer/plastic ones now? I have a grumman aluminum that we use sometimes, but i prefer my kayak.
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    Quote Originally Posted by Muzikman View Post
    First off, you can take a Canoe in white water. People do it all the time. That is why they make float bags.

    Blue jeans are a very ugly idea when kayaking (or honestly any outdoor activity). They get heavy when wet and they do not dry out. I have never paddled in the winter (I have done spring run off) and I have never owned a wet suit. I wear nylon shorts and a Polypropylene t-shirt, I also wear water shoes (I hate sandles and i refuse to paddle barefoot). In whitewater the proper PFD and helmet are a must and you hardly ever see people without them.

    And just like wheeling (and probably more important when Kayaking), don't kayak a lone. Flat water it's not as bad, but never ever paddle whitewater alone.

    To each his own. White water by your self is assanign to say the least..If some one does that they deserve to die. I guess when you talk about this type of stuff in an offroad forum..every one wants to be an engineer. Live a little, its not rocket science. Blue jeans work. Non of my budys ever wore them..lust me. I didn't give a rats a$$ and niether did they. Yeah they might way you down..well this is where the engineering part isn't all that necessary...you'll be fine. If you can swim a little, they're no heavier than a wet suit. holy hell. Grow a couple balls and put your white water text book down and have a little fun!
    Last edited by Deadman 94 xj; 01-28-2008 at 06:43 PM.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Muzikman View Post
    First off, you can take a Canoe in white water. People do it all the time. That is why they make float bags.

    Float bags HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH

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    I worked at a kayak shop for a couple of years. I sold a crap load of kayaks and just a hand full of canoes. Kayak are in because they work! I bet the ratio was close to 125 to 1.

    For the Noob white water guy that has little to no kayak experience look for an older Rpm. Forgiving yet fun.

    My last demo boat was a Liquid logic Big Wheel. A easy going play boat. There is one on ebay right now for $250. Best boat I have ever paddled.

    Anywho Wind and Water boatworks holds a demo day closer to the weather break. If you have no Idea what you want go check it out. Perception/Dagger rep usually brought the whole line. And I think LL will be attending too..

    It seems like where there are jeeping rocks there is white water. And I believe the johnstown area is the area to check out, I heard a white water park was to go in out there?!

    We should have a m+g on the creek!
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  24. #24
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    Agreed!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Deadman 94 xj View Post
    Yeah they might way you down..well this is where the engineering part isn't all that necessary...you'll be fine. If you can swim a little, they're no heavier than a wet suit. holy hell. Grow a couple balls and put your white water text book down and have a little fun!

    Don't want to start a pissing match but come on. Imho blue jeans are fine for the fishing boat. But if there is a chance I am swimming no blue jeans, and certainly not in white water. Its people like you that are the reason I carry a throw bag.
    Andy
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