Do not look if you don't want a political rant

[Effjae]

They are all lying politicians and all suck. McCain sucks, Hillary sucks and Obama sucks.

[Muzikman]

But which sucks the least, that is the one you need to vote for.

Let's put it this way, I won't be voting for Hillary or Obama.

[DMG]

Oh, and realistically the Constitution does not protect gun rights to citizens. Don't jump down my throat that I'm anti-gun, because I am not. But the right to bear arms is really more of a privilege if you actually read the Constitution.

BULLSHIT.

Our founding fathers did not bother to put 'privileges' in the Constitution.

[Bill]

BULLSHIT.

Our founding fathers did not bother to put 'privileges' in the Constitution.

Wow. Dave and I actually agree on something political for once.

AMAZING.

[MF Steve!]

BULLSHIT.

Our founding fathers did not bother to put 'privileges' in the Constitution.

aaaaaand X3.

[DMG]

I'm not trying to be derogatory, but have you actually read the Constitution? Literally, the ammendment only secures gun rights for members of the militia... at the time it was written, that meant soldiers. It's clearly worded. In fact, there's a case from DC on the Supreme Court docket that will be using that interpretation in the Defense so you may be hearing about it a bit more. I think gun rights are great and should be kept, I'm just saying if you actually read the Constitution verbatum it doesn't really extend that right to civilians so using the Constitution isn't a good backboard to gun rights.

All the amendments apply to all the people, Tim. Most of the first 10 amendments refer to 'the people'. Including the 2nd. Maybe you need to read the constitution. Remember, the 1st Amendment is not referring to the military, either.

[notmYJ]

BULLSHIT.

Our founding fathers did not bother to put 'privileges' in the Constitution.

+eleventy billion

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...Ks66iVCQ&hl=en

Follow the link. It gets interesting around the 45 second mark... This is a very good explanation of the 2nd. Makes sense to me.

And in closing, I would like to add another link...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?do...Ks66iVCQ&hl=en

[TimMichaels]

All the amendments apply to all the people, Tim. Most of the first 10 amendments refer to 'the people'. Including the 2nd. Maybe you need to read the constitution. Remember, the 1st Amendment is not referring to the military, either.

The second refers to the militia. It specifically says the militia. It's awkwardly worded really, due to the outdated grammar. It can very easily be interpreted that the right to bear arms is reserved to members of the militia. If it was so cut and dry in either direction it wouldn't be on the Supreme Court docket. Honestly, I see the Supreme Court ruling against the militia interpretation with little dissent, probably determing that the due process clause of the 14th amendment extends it to the citizens. My bet's on a 6-3 decision.

[Jimbo]

BULL Shikkies! That's what he's telling everyone so the dumb azzes vote for him! Why do you think he says he oposes the war, he don't want us kickin the shyt out of his people.

And then when he gets elected he's going to say HA HA! Fooled you! I was Muslim all along and then he's going to walk into the capitol building with an improvised explosive device strapped to his chest and blow up half of the legislature. Or maybe he'll hijack airforce one and crash it into the pentagon. umm... yeah.

[DMG]

The second refers to the militia. It specifically says the militia. It's awkwardly worded really, due to the outdated grammar. It can very easily be interpreted that the right to bear arms is reserved to members of the militia. If it was so cut and dry in either direction it wouldn't be on the Supreme Court docket. Honestly, I see the Supreme Court ruling against the militia interpretation with little dissent, probably determing that the due process clause of the 14th amendment extends it to the citizens. My bet's on a 6-3 decision.

It is somewhat awkwardly worded but we know that the Bill of Rights is a list of citizens rights, intended to be protected from the government. Most of the amendments refer the 'the people', including the 2nd.

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

You don't think this referred to the military too, do you?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

How about here?

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

[steveg0690]

I just sat down and watched that video. All I have to say is "..." That's it, I'm speechless.

Steve

[LordAthens]

Watch the first third and last third also, if you haven't already.

Best fawking magicians, evar.

[Mel85CJ]

I guess I just have to wonder what the point of the post is anyways.

#1. I would fathom to guess that about 90% of the pghoffroad folks aren't going to vote for Obama... for about a bazillion different reasons.

#2. The remaining 10%... aren't going to be swayed by an internet propaganda video at this point.

[2002wranglerX]

And my parents are Christians but I am an athiest. You don't have to have the same religious beliefs as your parents. And yes, he has a goofy reverend, as he is a member of a Christian church. They even say that in the video. I am not arguing any pluses or minuses about Obama. I just wanted to correct you on his religious beliefs. He's not a Muslim.

i'd be willing to bet you took some of your morals and values from them. Religion aside.

[2002wranglerX]

But which sucks the least, that is the one you need to vote for.

Let's put it this way, I won't be voting for Hillary or Obama.

lol. who can do the most damage is the way i'm looking at it.

Hillary, while she has a super liberal past, she is a politician to the bone. She'll bend and sway with popular opinion to keep her in power, but she'll stay moderate liberal to keep the votes. She is going to raise the federal gains tax to where it was in the 90's. I hate her health care plan.

McCain: well he's not really a conservative. He's ok on the war, but he's way off on the environment. He's a maverick but i still think he'd appoint decent supreme court judges. He and i don't see eye to eye on a lot of issues. But will people after 4 years think that McCain reflects the real conservative agenda? that's my concern.

Obama is going to cripple our military (he already said he would cut back on research). Obama is going to raise our taxes (federal gains are going to go through the roof!), Obama and his wife are both racist. Bottom line. Some of his wife's statements absolutely make me sick.

so take your pick . . . . I'm going to vote this year, too many people have died for me to have that right. I almost want to stay home and let the Libs screw up the country even more, rather than letting them say "look bush the 3rd messed things up blah blah blah. I'm not happy with any of em.

So i'll be voting for who i think will do the least amount of damage.

[Muzikman]

oh, and to get back on the original topic. Did you guys hear that he left his church? It doesn't have anything to do with the primay race or the contraversy.

[grannygears]

I don't usually engage in political discussions because they are fruitless but I just can't resist my two cents on this one.

The only person who has the potential to be a good president is someone who isn't a politician. Politicians by definition are people who have made a career out of looking good and being good orators (the current illiterate president excluded).

I am NOT a fan of Obama but that video was a typical example of politically motivated bias bs. Taking individual items out of context and stringing them together to suit your purpose is as meaningless as a single drop of water in an ocean. I personally believe if Obama is, by some miracle, elected president, he will be the next US president to be assassinated. There are far too many racists in this country for a black man to be the president.

The real reason I had to jump in here is the RIGHT to bear arms. Subject to interpretation? Excuse me? Statements are subject to imterpretation when someone needs to twist the meaning of that statement to suit what he or she would like to believe it means.

THE RIGHT of the PEOPLE to have and bear arms SHALL NOT be infringed because that renders them incapable of defending the security of a free state.

Yes, in keeping with the current events of 200 years ago, militia is mentioned but after having to fight to get out from under British rule our founding fathers knew the people could not be allowed to be defenseless against ANY threat to their rights, especially governmental threats.

Hitler knew the only way to control people was to disarm them.

"The 1938 Nazi gun laws also specifically banned Jewish persons from obtaining a license to manufacture firearms or ammunition. And about eight months later, Hitler imposed regulations prohibiting Jews from possessing any dangerous weapons, including firearms. The Nazi regime implemented this prohibition by confiscating weapons from Jews and subsequently engaged in genocide of the Jewish population" (Harcourt, 2004).

Take away their ability to defend themselves and they are at your mercy.

Didn't our goverment learn anything from Prohibition and the Controlled Substance Act? There's a plan... let's enable the criminal element to make even more money on the black market and strip away the rights of law abiding citizens.

[TimMichaels]

I don't usually engage in political discussions because they are fruitless but I just can't resist my two cents on this one.

The only person who has the potential to be a good president is someone who isn't a politician. Politicians by definition are people who have made a career out of looking good and being good orators (the current illiterate president excluded).

I am NOT a fan of Obama but that video was a typical example of politically motivated bias bs. Taking individual items out of context and stringing them together to suit your purpose is as meaningless as a single drop of water in an ocean. I personally believe if Obama is, by some miracle, elected president, he will be the next US president to be assassinated. There are far too many racists in this country for a black man to be the president.

The real reason I had to jump in here is the RIGHT to bear arms. Subject to interpretation? Excuse me? Statements are subject to imterpretation when someone needs to twist the meaning of that statement to suit what he or she would like to believe it means.

THE RIGHT of the PEOPLE to have and bear arms SHALL NOT be infringed because that renders them incapable of defending the security of a free state.

Yes, in keeping with the current events of 200 years ago, militia is mentioned but after having to fight to get out from under British rule our founding fathers knew the people could not be allowed to be defenseless against ANY threat to their rights, especially governmental threats.

Hitler knew the only way to control people was to disarm them.

"The 1938 Nazi gun laws also specifically banned Jewish persons from obtaining a license to manufacture firearms or ammunition. And about eight months later, Hitler imposed regulations prohibiting Jews from possessing any dangerous weapons, including firearms. The Nazi regime implemented this prohibition by confiscating weapons from Jews and subsequently engaged in genocide of the Jewish population" (Harcourt, 2004).

Take away their ability to defend themselves and they are at your mercy.

Didn't our goverment learn anything from Prohibition and the Controlled Substance Act? There's a plan... let's enable the criminal element to make even more money on the black market and strip away the rights of law abiding citizens.

The Constitution is open to interpretation because its orginal wording is so vague in nearly every aspect. That is what the Supreme Court does. That's not even the actual wording of the Constitution you cited.

[TimMichaels]

i'd be willing to bet you took some of your morals and values from them. Religion aside.

Makes me wonder where this immense hatred for white people comes from then. Obviously his dad didn't... or his mom?

[TimMichaels]

It is somewhat awkwardly worded but we know that the Bill of Rights is a list of citizens rights, intended to be protected from the government. Most of the amendments refer the 'the people', including the 2nd.

A well regulated militia, being necessary to the security of a free state, the right of the people to keep and bear arms, shall not be infringed.

You don't think this referred to the military too, do you?

Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the government for a redress of grievances.

How about here?

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

Those instances don't mention militia, so I don't really see the connection? I guess freedom of press also extends to the people? What about the right to vote? Guess my 1 year old neice must be able to vote because its in the Constitution and she is a person.

[DMG]

Those instances don't mention militia, so I don't really see the connection? I guess freedom of press also extends to the people? What about the right to vote? Guess my 1 year old neice must be able to vote because its in the Constitution and she is a person.

Minors do not have the same rights as adults, you know that.

The press is made up of people.

No more strawman arguments, please.

[TimMichaels]

Minors do not have the same rights as adults, you know that.

The press is made up of people.

No more strawman arguments, please.

And soldiers are different from civilians. The arguments are no different than yours.

[dan58]

The beautiful thing is that the SCOTUS will be providing the interpretation very shortly. They hinted during the arguments that they believe it is a personal right. I'm happy to see it.

[DMG]

And soldiers are different from civilians. The arguments are no different than yours.

Were we discussing soldiers?

[Muzikman]

And soldiers are different from civilians. The arguments are no different than yours.

Tim,

Freedom of press means that I can publish a new paper. It does not mean that ONLY the press can publish news papers. I spent an entire semester on the constitution, and my interpretation is totally different than yours.