Page 1 of 3 123 LastLast
Results 1 to 25 of 59

Thread: Interesting read on our oil issues. (Who's to blame?)

  1. #1
    Go Big Or Go Homo! jeepxj3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ross Township
    Posts
    6,082

    Interesting read on our oil issues. (Who's to blame?)

    Subject: MORE ON OUR HOPELESS FRIENDS IN CONGRESS


    May 21, 2008

    Oil Executives Try to Educate Senate Democrats, But Democrats Appear Hopeless

    Earlier today, the Senate Judiciary Committee summoned top executives from
    the petroleum industry for what Chairman Pat Leahy thought would be a
    politically profitable inquisition. Leahy and his comrades showed up ready
    to blame American oil companies for the high price of gasoline, but the
    event wasn't as satisfactory as the Democrats had hoped.

    The industry lineup was formidable: Robert Malone, Chairman and President
    of BP America, Inc.; John Hofmeister, President, Shell Oil Company; Peter
    Roberts on, Vice Chairman of the Board, Chevron Corporation; John Lowe,
    Executive Vice President, Conoco Philips Company; and Stephen Simon,
    Senior Vice President, Exxon Mobil Corporation. Not surprisingly, the
    petroleum executives stole the show, as they were far smarter, infinitely
    better informed, and much more public-spirited than the Senate Democrats.

    One theme that emerged from the hearing was the surprisingly small role
    played by American oil companies in the global petroleum market. John Lowe
    pointed out:

    I cannot overemphasize the access issue. Access to resources is severely
    restricted in the United States and abroad, and the American oil industry
    must compete with national oil companies who are often much larger and
    have the support of their governments. We can only compete directly for 7
    percent of the world's available reserves while about 75 percent is
    completely controlled by national oil companies and is not accessible.

    Stephen Simon amplified:

    Exxon Mobil is the largest U.S. oil and gas company, but we account for
    only 2 percent of global energy production, only 3 percent of global oil
    production, only 6 percent of global refining capacity, and only 1 percent
    of global petroleum reserves. With respect to petroleum reserves, we rank
    14th. Government-owned national oil companies dominate the top spots. For
    an American company to succeed in this competitive landscape and go head
    to head with huge government-backed national oil companies, it needs
    financial strength and scale to execute massive complex energy projects
    requiring enormous long-term investments. To simply maintain our current
    operations and make needed capital investments, Exxon Mobil spends nearly
    $1 billion each day.

    Because foreign companies and governments control the overwhelming
    majority of the world's oil, most of the price you pay at the pump is the
    cost paid by the American oil company to acquire crude oil from someone
    else:

    Last year, the average price in the United States of a gallon of regular
    unleaded gasoline was around $2.80. On average in 2007, approximately 58
    percent of the price reflected the amount paid for crude oil. Consumers
    pay for that crude oil, and so do we. Of the 2 million barrels per day
    Exxon Mobil refined in 2007 here in the United States, 90 percent were
    purchased from others.

    Another theme of the day's testimony was that, if anyone is 'gouging'
    consumers through the high price of gasol ine, it is federal and state
    governments, not American oil companies. On the average, 15% percent of
    the cost of gasoline at the pump goes for taxes, while only 4% represents
    oil company profits. These figures were repeated several times, but,
    strangely, not a single Democratic Senator proposed relieving consumers'
    anxieties about gas prices by reducing taxes.

    The last theme that was sounded repeatedly was Congress's responsibility
    for the fact that American companies have access to so little petroleum.
    Shell's John Hofmeister explained, eloquently:

    While all oil-importing nations buy oil at global prices, some, notably
    India and China, subsidize the cost of oil products to their nation's
    consumers, feeding the demand for more oil despite record prices. They do
    this to speed economic growth and to ensure a competitive advantage
    relative to other nations.

    Meanwhile, in the United States, access to our own oil and gas resources
    has been limited for the last 30 years, prohibiting companies such as
    Shell from exploring and developing resources for the benefit of the
    American people.

    Senator Sessions, I agree, it is not a free market.

    According to the Department of the Interior, 62 percent of all on-shore
    federal lands are off limits to oil and gas developments, with
    restrictions applying to 92 percent of all federal lands. We have an outer
    continental shelf moratorium on the Atlantic Ocean, an outer continental
    shelf moratorium on the Pacific Ocean, an outer continental shelf
    moratorium on the eastern Gulf of Mexico, congressional bans on on-shore
    oil and gas activities in specific areas of the Rockies and Alaska, and
    even a congressio nal ban on doing an analysis of the resource potential
    for oil and gas in the Atlantic, Pacific and eastern Gulf of Mexico.

    The Argonne National Laboratory did a report in 2004 that identified 40
    specific federal policy areas that halt, limit, delay or restrict natural
    gas projects. I urge you to review it. It is a long list. If I may, I
    offer it today if you would like to include it in the record.

    When many of these policies were implemented, oil was selling in the
    single digits, not the triple digits we see now. The cumulative effect of
    these policies has been to discourage U.S. investment and send U.S.
    companies outside the United States to produce new supplies.

    As a result, U.S. production has declined so much that nearly 60 percent
    of daily consumption comes from foreign sources.

    The problem of access can be solved in this country by > the same
    government that has prohibited it. Congress could have chosen to lift some
    or all of the current restrictions on exportation and production of oil
    and gas. Congress could provide national policy to reverse the persistent
    decline of domestically secure natural resource development.

    Later in the hearing, Senator Orrin Hatch walked Hofmeister through the
    Democrats' latest efforts to block energy independence:

    HATCH: I want to get into that. In other words, we're talking about Utah,
    Colorado and Wyoming. It's fair to say that they're not considered part of
    America's $22 billion of proven reserves.

    HOFMEISTER: Not at all.

    HATCH: No, but experts agree that there's between 800 billion to almost 2
    trillion barrels of oil that could be recoverable there, and that's good
    oil, isn't it?

    HOFMEISTER: That's correct.

    HATCH: It could be recovered at somewhere between $30 and $40 a barrel?

    HOFMEISTER: I think those costs are probably a bit dated now, based upon
    what we've seen in the inflation...

    HATCH: Well, somewhere in that area.

    HOFMEISTER: I don't know what the exact cost would be, but, you know, if
    there is more supply, I think inflation in the oil industry would be
    cracked. And we are facing severe inflation because of the limited amount
    of supply against the demand.

    HATCH: I guess what I'm saying, though, is that if we started to develop
    the oil shale in those three states we could do it within this framework
    of over $100 a barrel and make a profit.

    HOFMEISTER: I believe we could.

    HATCH: And we could help our country alleviate its oil pressures.

    HOFMEISTER: Yes.

    HATCH: But they're stopping us from doing that right here, as we sit here.
    We just had a hearing last week where Democrats had stopped the ability to
    do that, in
    at least Colorado.

    HOFMEISTER: Well, as I said in my opening statement, I think the public
    policy constraints on the supply side in this country are a disservice to
    the American consumer.

    The committee's Democrats attempted no response. They know that they are
    largely responsible for the current high price of gasoline, and they want
    the price to rise even further. Consequently, they have no intention of
    permitting the development of domestic oil and gas reserves that would
    both increase this country's energy independence and give consumers a
    break from constantly increasing energy costs.

    Every once in a while, Congressional hearings turn out to be informative.
    Im not pointing any fingers here, take it for what it is nothing more.
    1980 CJ-7 304 TH400 BW1339
    1999 TJ Sport 4.0 32RH NP231
    2001 XJ Sport 4.0 AW4 NP231

  2. #2
    Destined to be a child molester! Jpdst29's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Location
    ...at the local mall drooling over young girls...
    Posts
    2,902
    where did you get that at? very interesting.
    [SIGPIC][/SIGPIC]

    [SIZE=1]Buying a hooker for the conversation is like buying a porn film for its plot.[/SIZE]

    [SIZE=1]'06 Silver Rubicon[/SIZE]

  3. #3
    Go Big Or Go Homo! jeepxj3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ross Township
    Posts
    6,082
    You can actually watch this on C-Span
    Last edited by jeepxj3; 06-13-2008 at 10:35 AM.
    1980 CJ-7 304 TH400 BW1339
    1999 TJ Sport 4.0 32RH NP231
    2001 XJ Sport 4.0 AW4 NP231

  4. #4
    I have grease stains on the knees of my dockers Muzikman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    40º28.104'N 79º49.208'W
    Posts
    6,297
    But that can't be...it's all Bush's fault...he is an oil guy, he is the one driving up the price of oil.
    Jason "Muzikman" Beam
    Pittsburgh (Penn Hills), PA

    The Xterra
    The Jeep

  5. #5
    Less posting, more wheeling!
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Elma, NY (near Buffalo)
    Posts
    1,986
    Another oil thread!!

    Good read, though.

    [sarcasm]It's all Al Gore's fault -- driving up oil prices to ultimately reduce demand for oil and "stop" global warming. [/sarcasm]
    [URL="http://www.pgh-offroad.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7670"][/URL]

  6. #6
    Go Big Or Go Homo! jeepxj3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ross Township
    Posts
    6,082
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzikman View Post
    But that can't be...it's all Bush's fault...he is an oil guy, he is the one driving up the price of oil.
    really? Policy put in place way back when is what is preventing the oil companies from bringing down prices. I hate to say it but an uneducated consumer, as well as government is the reason for all of this.
    1980 CJ-7 304 TH400 BW1339
    1999 TJ Sport 4.0 32RH NP231
    2001 XJ Sport 4.0 AW4 NP231

  7. #7
    I have grease stains on the knees of my dockers Muzikman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    40º28.104'N 79º49.208'W
    Posts
    6,297
    Oh come on, Bush is making Billions off of us. Why do you think gas/oil prices are at their all time high just before he's out of office. He wants to milk us for every penny before he leaves office. Open you eyes man. When Obama is president gas prices will be at an all time low and the economy will be booming...just wait, you'll see.
    Jason "Muzikman" Beam
    Pittsburgh (Penn Hills), PA

    The Xterra
    The Jeep

  8. #8
    PghOffRoad Forum Addict!
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    Hookstown
    Posts
    630
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzikman View Post
    Oh come on, Bush is making Billions off of us. Why do you think gas/oil prices are at their all time high just before he's out of office. He wants to milk us for every penny before he leaves office. Open you eyes man. When Obama is president gas prices will be at an all time low and the economy will be booming...just wait, you'll see.


    r u kidding? I really doubt the president of the United States is that crooked. Do you have any evidence supporting this or is it just that you dont like him?

  9. #9
    Go Big Or Go Homo! jeepxj3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ross Township
    Posts
    6,082
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzikman View Post
    Oh come on, Bush is making Billions off of us. Why do you think gas/oil prices are at their all time high just before he's out of office. He wants to milk us for every penny before he leaves office. Open you eyes man. When Obama is president gas prices will be at an all time low and the economy will be booming...just wait, you'll see.
    please support your speculation....
    1980 CJ-7 304 TH400 BW1339
    1999 TJ Sport 4.0 32RH NP231
    2001 XJ Sport 4.0 AW4 NP231

  10. #10
    Less posting, more wheeling!
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Plum, PA
    Posts
    2,227
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzikman View Post
    When Obama is president gas prices will be at an all time low and the economy will be booming...just wait, you'll see.

    BS. Bush doesnt control the price of oil.

  11. #11
    I have grease stains on the knees of my dockers Muzikman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    40º28.104'N 79º49.208'W
    Posts
    6,297
    The hell he doesn't! I am telling you, it's all his fault. Are you guys really that stupid?

    Obama '08! That is out only saving grace!
    Jason "Muzikman" Beam
    Pittsburgh (Penn Hills), PA

    The Xterra
    The Jeep

  12. #12
    Go Big Or Go Homo! jeepxj3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ross Township
    Posts
    6,082
    Quote Originally Posted by jeepxj3 View Post
    please support your speculation....
    ill repost this because you have yet to support yourself. Goverment policy is what is to blame, and its not just Bush to blame, its past presidents as well, if your boy Obama is elected your pretty much saying he's out to change this policy, well I tell you this much... Good luck getting the support of the enviormentalist out there! With Gore on the loose telling everyone about this global warming scare its gonna be a loosing battle. The consumer is an idiot and not willing to educate themselves on the issue at hand.
    Last edited by jeepxj3; 06-13-2008 at 12:54 PM.
    1980 CJ-7 304 TH400 BW1339
    1999 TJ Sport 4.0 32RH NP231
    2001 XJ Sport 4.0 AW4 NP231

  13. #13
    I have grease stains on the knees of my dockers Muzikman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    40º28.104'N 79º49.208'W
    Posts
    6,297
    Jason "Muzikman" Beam
    Pittsburgh (Penn Hills), PA

    The Xterra
    The Jeep

  14. #14
    Go Big Or Go Homo! jeepxj3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ross Township
    Posts
    6,082
    I still fail to see your point, that article talked more so about his current staff's idiocy...
    1980 CJ-7 304 TH400 BW1339
    1999 TJ Sport 4.0 32RH NP231
    2001 XJ Sport 4.0 AW4 NP231

  15. #15
    PghOffRoad Forum Addict! psychobilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    709
    hmm. Take it for what it says or get informed on the subect. Its easier to just subscribe to it, I know, but if you do you deserve to be paying 4 bux a gallon and more.

    We can only compete directly for 7
    percent of the world's available reserves while about 75 percent is
    completely controlled by national oil companies and is not accessible.
    Did they mention that all of the crude oil in the us (alaska included) accounts for only 3% of the worlds supply? Thats kinda important to know. If we hit it hard and sucked every ounce out, ruining protected forests forever we'd meet our demands for a few years at best. How the hell can that plan make us "energy independent"? And this whole oil mess isnt about supply and demand anyway, there is plenty of supply. So if we tap into ANWAR do you think these oil companies are going to pass this oil on to you for any less money than the market demands? If you do then again, you deserve to go broke buying it. It wont make a difference, theres just billions of dollars to be made right now if our gov will allow them to destroy land you and I bought and own in our national forests. Dont forget too now american companies will be able to compete for 83% of Iraq's oil. Wonder why they forgot to mention that?

    And then they talk about oil shale. Our country sits on it, its everywhere, big whoop if theres a place in colorado it cant be dug from. Its not oil however, its contains a hydrocarbon that can make a synthetic oil and thus be refined into fuels. Theres nothing stoping any single company from using it other than the fact right now oil companies can make a bigger profit on other sources of oil (anyone ever hear of exxon). That shale is used to fire generating stations to make electricty, it can be used to make oil if any company so desired. So could coal and boney (waste coal). But since its not a supply and demand issue (at least right now) there is no real desire to go that route. Some companies are buying up land that contains large deposits of oil shale however because the future will demand we use us it. Especially if we dont make the switch to hydrogen and bio's.


    I'm not pretending I know the fix for this mess (although a strong dollar would cut the price in half and for that we can IN FACT blame the bush admin) but I know when someones trying to slap a new coat of paint on an old piece of shit and sell it to me. Theres easy profits in crude right now (did I mention exxon?) and with the weak dollar it will have more value on the market. Dont be fooled.
    Last edited by psychobilly; 06-13-2008 at 01:03 PM.

  16. #16
    I have grease stains on the knees of my dockers Muzikman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    40º28.104'N 79º49.208'W
    Posts
    6,297
    I agree that the weak dollar has a TON to do with oil prices (oil is priced on the dollar). I am also a believer that cheaper gas would strengthen the dollar. Maybe not as much as it could, but if people were putting that $300+ a month they spend on gas into their credit card / mortgage payment, they might get out of debt which would mean the banks wouldn't be in such a hurt, which means the feds wouldn't be giving away money which has greatly devalued the dollar.

    Not to mention that the price of goods would go back down (or should go back down) since the price of gas effects everyone, from farms to transportation.
    Jason "Muzikman" Beam
    Pittsburgh (Penn Hills), PA

    The Xterra
    The Jeep

  17. #17
    I have grease stains on the knees of my dockers Muzikman's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2006
    Location
    40º28.104'N 79º49.208'W
    Posts
    6,297
    Quote Originally Posted by jeepxj3 View Post
    I still fail to see your point, that article talked more so about his current staff's idiocy...
    I dunno, I didn't even read it, I based it on the title.

    I am a republican, I voted for Bush both times and will never vote for Obama, I just wanted to ruffle some feathers...and it worked. When you asked me to do actual work to support my false statements, it seemed like a waste...so I blame you for taking away my fun.

    BTW, everything I wrote is stuff that democrat supporters have been saying for the last couple years. I was just puking it back up.
    Jason "Muzikman" Beam
    Pittsburgh (Penn Hills), PA

    The Xterra
    The Jeep

  18. #18
    Go Big Or Go Homo! jeepxj3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ross Township
    Posts
    6,082
    Taking oil out of the ground is not going to make us energy independent, by FAR!!! But current policy does not allow for oil companies to drill, uncap, or search out new wells (THIS IS THE PROBLEM) So here we are left to purchase our oil from forign companies.

    Just a little tid bit of info: Oil wells over in the middle east only pull about 1/3 of the wells potential then capped off. (Reason being: it is not cost effective to pull all of the oil out of the wells) With rising costs how much potential oil have they left behind? This figure im sure is astronomical!

    Ill give you the answer as to why oil companies are making record profits...
    (I just pulled this from Bloomberg)
    Nymex Crude Future 134.89 /bbl

    Lets say the price per barrel goes up today, in turn gas stations raise their prices. That price per barrel today will not reach the U.S. until at least 3 months later due to shipping, and refining. In that time the price can fluctuate either way, but you just paid for the price of crude oil at its current high price... Now ask yourself is this right????

    Now also keep in mind that these oil companies have seen the writing on the wall, they are aware of our current situation, and dont think for 1min that they dont have plans for alternative energy.
    1980 CJ-7 304 TH400 BW1339
    1999 TJ Sport 4.0 32RH NP231
    2001 XJ Sport 4.0 AW4 NP231

  19. #19
    Less posting, more wheeling!
    Join Date
    Jul 2006
    Location
    Plum, PA
    Posts
    2,227
    Maybe people should spend more time working and less time complaining about high gas prices. Honestly, everywhere you go nowadays you can find SOMEONE whos either complaining or has a chip on their shoulder about how much they just paid to fill up there car/truck/or SUV. Seriously, if you have that much time to complain all the time, maybe you should consider putting that extra time into getting a better job or going back to school so you can get a degree to GET a better job.

    Gas prices and the economy is what it is. One person sitting on an internet chat room or forum whining about things isnt going to change a damn anything. Even voting for president so and so isnt necessarily going to help. Voting in a good president with decent views MIGHT help the situation, but its not going to be an overnight change.

    [RANT OFF]

    And that wasnt directed at anyone on here...just making a comment.

  20. #20
    Bush is dumb, that is fact. The problem is that we let politicians run this country. They don't care about our interests. They are not the common man. They are all in one pocket or another and are worried about their own interests and well being. They all need kicked out and we should start from scratch with, perhaps, a lottery system to determine who should run the country?!?
    2007 FJ Cruiser, Sliders, Skid, CB, Compressor, Rear Locker, Axe, Shovel, 32" Dick Cepek Mud Country's, AFE CAI.....

  21. #21
    PghOffRoad Forum Addict! psychobilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    709
    ill repost this because you have yet to support yourself. Goverment policy is what is to blame, and its not just Bush to blame, its past presidents as well
    I feel that musicman is being sarcastic but he's correct in a large part so allow me to prove it, its quite easy.

    The department of energy gives a weekly report on the energy situation. Every week we have been stockpiling unused supplies of gasoline and heavy fuels. This despite the fact that we are importing less oil. Demand is down from one year go considerably. According to the D.O.E. we are importing and using nearly 1,000,000 FEWER barrels of crude a day compared to this time last year. So if supply and demand were driving the cost of energy, the prices should have been going down for the last year, not up. Were importing less, using less and stockpiling more. Gas surplus has been up 3-20% from last year. Heating oil surplus is up too, remember that when you take your july delivery at 4 bux a gallon.

    So the price is not being set by the consumers demand and opec is holding up their end of production as well.

    Next we look to the market, prices are pretty much determined on the NYMEX. This is where the price has gone through the roof and its been caused by inflation (and speculation). When the dollar falls (inflation) people invest in metals and oil. This inflation is caused by government policy. Bush's republican policy does not care about inflation because georges people "the have's and have more's" (and that is a quote of his) they dont feel inflation. In fact they benefit from it with big contracts like were seeing haliburton getting right now. So our gov has to pay those contracts but we dont have the money. Not a problem if your George Bush, we'll just borrow it from the federal reserve at interest and what they dont give GW he just borrows from other countries and foreign banks. So every dollar we get on loan from the federal reserve it must create. Every dollar we create decreases the value of every dollar we have, especially now because were flooding the foreign markets with american currency. Our dollar is barely worth more than a peso these days and no one wants it. When the dollar is worth nothing people dont invest in american companies, they buy oil and foreigners buy american property. Its UNREAL how many foreign investors are buying property in american. They are doing it because they "cant believe how cheap" american homes are. Not to us, hell our working class is becoming homeless while foreigners are buying them up. Even bigger american companies are buying these homes and property and selling them from offices in dubai and south korea because thats where the money is. Its not in our working class, thanks GW. Were being beaten big time and my bet is 4 more years of republican policy like GW's and our working class will be among the poorest people in the world. I freakin hate republicans. Even more I cant stand folks who make less than 5 million a year and support them. You people that do deserve what you get, hell you deserve what you got. You remember GW talking to that lady who "worked 3 jobs just to make ends meet" and he smiled and was real happy and said something like " you work 3 jobs, now thats american, that is FANTASTIC" like he was proud she had to work 3 jobs to make ends meet.

    Want some sources?

    Shoulda bought some peso's a few years ago. Or better yet canadian dollars, you woulda doubled your investment. Might of been almost able to keep up with inflation
    http://finance.yahoo.com/currency/co...MXN&amt=1&t=2y

    oil supply and demand

    http://www.eia.doe.gov/pub/oil_gas/p...t/txt/wpsr.txt



  22. #22
    Go Big Or Go Homo! jeepxj3's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jan 2006
    Location
    Ross Township
    Posts
    6,082
    Quote Originally Posted by XJchris98 View Post
    Maybe people should spend more time working and less time complaining about high gas prices. Honestly, everywhere you go nowadays you can find SOMEONE whos either complaining or has a chip on their shoulder about how much they just paid to fill up there car/truck/or SUV. Seriously, if you have that much time to complain all the time, maybe you should consider putting that extra time into getting a better job or going back to school so you can get a degree to GET a better job.

    Gas prices and the economy is what it is. One person sitting on an internet chat room or forum whining about things isnt going to change a damn anything. Even voting for president so and so isnt necessarily going to help. Voting in a good president with decent views MIGHT help the situation, but its not going to be an overnight change.

    [RANT OFF]

    And that wasnt directed at anyone on here...just making a comment.
    Chris, im working on alternative energy... So I think I can speak
    1980 CJ-7 304 TH400 BW1339
    1999 TJ Sport 4.0 32RH NP231
    2001 XJ Sport 4.0 AW4 NP231

  23. #23
    PghOffRoad Forum Addict! psychobilly's Avatar
    Join Date
    Nov 2004
    Posts
    709
    Maybe people should spend more time working and less time complaining about high gas prices. Honestly, everywhere you go nowadays you can find SOMEONE whos either complaining or has a chip on their shoulder about how much they just paid to fill up there car/truck/or SUV. Seriously, if you have that much time to complain all the time, maybe you should consider putting that extra time into getting a better job or going back to school so you can get a degree to GET a better job.
    If your eager to accept incompetence and defeat you deserve the reprocutions. I have a degree, a decent income and everything I own except my house is bought and paid for. 2 days of work makes my monthy mortgage and I could pay it off today if I wanted. So I'm not hurting, in fact I have probably benefited a little from this in some ways. I still wont just accept it, we deserve better but if your eager to forget that you will never get it.

  24. #24
    Less posting, more wheeling!
    Join Date
    Nov 2006
    Location
    Elma, NY (near Buffalo)
    Posts
    1,986
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzikman View Post
    I am a republican, I voted for Bush both times and will never vote for Obama, I just wanted to ruffle some feathers...and it worked. When you asked me to do actual work to support my false statements, it seemed like a waste...so I blame you for taking away my fun.

    BTW, everything I wrote is stuff that democrat supporters have been saying for the last couple years. I was just puking it back up.
    From the couple times I've met you, I thought your comments were quite sarcastic and not consistent with the way you usually argue stuff (i.e. have facts/documents to back it up). It made my day that people went el nutso over it.

    That's why I put the [sarcastic] tags around my Al Gore comment -- in fear that people would take me seriously.

    I the Internets.
    [URL="http://www.pgh-offroad.com/forum/showthread.php?t=7670"][/URL]

  25. #25
    Less posting, more wheeling! MemorEsto's Avatar
    Join Date
    Oct 2006
    Location
    Corry, PA
    Posts
    1,503
    Quote Originally Posted by Muzikman View Post
    I dunno, I didn't even read it, I based it on the title.

    I am a republican, I voted for Bush both times and will never vote for Obama, I just wanted to ruffle some feathers...and it worked. When you asked me to do actual work to support my false statements, it seemed like a waste...so I blame you for taking away my fun.

    BTW, everything I wrote is stuff that democrat supporters have been saying for the last couple years. I was just puking it back up.
    Yeah, I thought you were joking as well, but thought for a second.... what the hell happened to Jason?!?!?
    Acer Offroad A♦A♣A♠A♥

Thread Information

Users Browsing this Thread

There are currently 1 users browsing this thread. (0 members and 1 guests)

Similar Threads

  1. Interesting...
    By busij44 in forum Shooting & Firearms
    Replies: 6
    Last Post: 04-24-2010, 06:23 PM
  2. Interesting read on AR's
    By EddyB in forum Shooting & Firearms
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: 12-24-2008, 04:19 AM

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •